BBC document on Covid (Health Service) and Racism

Fubsy said:
Yes there is a difference, however they are BOTH irrational.

Stop trying to justify racism, even if it's in the guise of grievance.

Hate, breeds hate and all that.
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Which is why this and similar programs are so poor as they collectivise people and make assumptions that they are all the same. Black's are victims, whites are the oppressor. History tells us that this is true etc.
 
Hagar said:
Which is why this and similar programs are so poor as they collectivise people and make assumptions that they are all the same. Black's are victims, whites are the oppressor. History tells us that this is true etc.
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It does make me laugh that posters like you always seem to imply that white people are the real victims though.

Do none of you actually bother to read what is posted by the far more intelligent and thoughtful posters?

GordyR said:
A fair observation, let's investigate why.


Are you certain that's the conclusion they came to? Because it's totally different from mine.

I watched the same documentary and saw them articulate why certain ethnicities might be more exposed, or perhaps predisposed to the disease.

Are you confident that you understood the point that the filmmakers were making? I'm a 39 year old white male and what you're describing is not something that I recognise.


Presumably you mean that they pointed out the fact that management roles were more likely to consist of white people; have you considered why?

I have 20 years of professional experience in this field, and I'm happy to explain to you what I think; only if you're interested of course.


That did not happen, in this regards at least, you're making things up.


That makes no sense. Are you truly of the opinion that because lots of BAME people work for the NHS, that institutional racism cannot possible exist within it?


I truly cannot grasp why you think that would be relevant in the context of this discussion.

Have you considered why that's the case? Presumably you have a good enough understanding of contemporary history to understand why a high level of mistrust might be prevalent in those communities right?

You know what happened only half a century ago, during the lifetime of many BAME people right? Have you not considered for a moment how you might feel if people of your own ethnicity were experimented on by their own state in your lifetime?

I would suggest that there would be a fair chance of people who shared your ethnicity, ending up being sceptical of state medical intervention; even though without a doubt I agree with you entirely that their scepticism and cynicism is misplaced today.


On that very specific part of the equation, he would probably be right.

You know what? I'm the last person to be swayed by identify politics, but the garbage spouted here does not marry at all with my recollection of the documentary we're discussing.

Are people truly convinced of this? Or have they been massaged into a position by people who require useful idiots for their own benefit?

I strongly suspect the latter.
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Tony Edwards said:
I editted my post 42 minutes before your post? So a couple of minutes after I posted it.

I havent worded it badly its just people arent bothering to read it properly.
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Yep, I was trying to be fair to you, in case your edit had affected my quote.

I get you're trying to do the right thing, but I don't like "the sins of the fathers" as an argument.

If you disagree with my opinion, I'd be interested in your reasoning.
 
Tony Edwards said:
It does make me laugh that posters like you always seem to imply that white people are the real victims though.
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He isn't implying that. He's attacking a discourse that is unhelpful to this issue or race relations in general. Just pinning the blame on white people in general will not fix these issues. When in history has having a scapegoat ever fixed a problem? (this isn't denying racism, it's denying inherent racism - racism exists and I fear it always will do in the minority in the Western world)

Tony Edwards said:
Do none of you actually bother to read what is posted by the far more intelligent and thoughtful posters?
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Yes I did, which is what prompted me to seek more information about the mistrust of medical institutions amongst BAME communities.

Did you read this part:

I would suggest that there would be a fair chance of people who shared your ethnicity, ending up being sceptical of state medical intervention; even though without a doubt I agree with you entirely that their scepticism and cynicism is misplaced today
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In regard to the COVID-19 vaccination, it is totally misplaced to have mistrust in a health service that literally wants to stop you developing severe life threatening symptoms from a virus. With all the trial data available to boot. Yet Facebook and historic US health service abuse is enough to convince people to put their lives at risk. Coming back to your spider stuff, it's like being afraid of shed spider skin while ignoring the live Black Widow on the back of your hand.

There is merit behind all of these grievances and perceptions, but there is more to it than it being one particular race to blame. How do we fix this going into the future and how do we do it without causing dangerous divisions within society? I honestly do not think that using terms such as ""be less white", "white fragility" and "don't trust whitey" will help one single bit, and in some cases will cause more suffering in BAME communities, e.g. with the likes of COVID vaccination as it gives the perception that to solve the problems all you need to do is prove racism exists and that explains everything. This approach is not solving people from BAME communities dying - getting that jab in their arms will!

Any BAME life lost to COVID, that has refused the vaccine based on "mistrust of white people" is NOT the fault of any person but the people that maintain the discourse of all white people being inherently racist. It's sickeningly anti-human.
 
This thread is like a handbook on how, in modern day life, even though you know you are in no way racist, everything you say is likely to be considered racist, so you probably are racist and even if you're not, your grandfather was probably a racist so you definitely are racist. Therefore: everyone's a racist.

Can we get on with life now?
 
potatolord said:
Yep, I was trying to be fair to you, in case your edit had affected my quote.

I get you're trying to do the right thing, but I don't like "the sins of the fathers" as an argument.

If you disagree with my opinion, I'd be interested in your reasoning.
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No I dont disagree about the racism bit. Its not my argument, It was an answer to a question is all. Perception and ignorance is a big problem with any kind of racism.

Theres a lot more to it than just racism with the 'dont trust whitey' thing. Id have thought it is more about medical services, governments and those in authority than white people in general really. America is still a crazy place.

Its probably closer to the term deep state. Or even just dont trust authority and government institutions. Im sure nowadays it would include large organisations as well like facebook, twitter et al...
 
HummuH1 said:
This thread is like a handbook on how, in modern day life, even though you know you are in no way racist, everything you say is likely to be considered racist, so you probably are racist and even if you're not, your grandfather was probably a racist so you definitely are racist. Therefore: everyone's a racist.

Can we get on with life now?
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No thats the point it isnt.

It is being made out that that could be the case but it is very much the exact opposite. However there are some people at the far edges that do believe that. That is not really the general consensus. It is just being used to make it seem that way.

Just going about your daily life isnt racist. Sending a banana over to the only black guy in the pub is racist.
 
HummuH1 said:
This thread is like a handbook on how, in modern day life, even though you know you are in no way racist, everything you say is likely to be considered racist, so you probably are racist and even if you're not, your grandfather was probably a racist so you definitely are racist. Therefore: everyone's a racist.

Can we get on with life now?
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No, it more like a handbook on white fragility. As soon as race comes into focus the key grievance is "what about white people". As stated throughout, a big part of racism is ignorance, lack of understanding and a poor attitude to anything moderately challenging. Throw in the folk who say daft things like "I don't see colour" and you've got your perfect apathetic model racist. Ignorant to the problem, ignorant to the underlying thinking, and ignorant to any change that would cost them literally nothing.
 
Fubsy said:
Yes I did, which is what prompted me to seek more information about the mistrust of medical institutions amongst BAME communities.
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Yes I have noted that you were inquirous which lead me into the whole trap of being called a racist again, but Im used to it by now. :D
Fubsy said:
In regard to the COVID-19 vaccination, it is totally misplaced to have mistrust in a health service that literally wants to stop you developing severe life threatening symptoms from a virus. With all the trial data available to boot.
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Of course its misplaced.
 
dLockers said:
ITT: white man from Hampshire is feeling victimised because of the colour of his skin, said no one from Hampshire ever.
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I'm not victimised. You are the one who always seems offended on behalf of others. Nice race war you are trying to start.

Nice edit as well. You assumed people from Hampshire are white? Racist.
 
Tony Edwards said:
No thats the point it isnt.

It is being made out that that could be the case but it is very much the exact opposite. However there are some people at the far edges that do believe that. That is not really the general consensus. It is just being used to make it seem that way.

Just going about your daily life isnt racist. Sending a banana over to the only black guy in the pub is racist.
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Actually what is happening now is like when the Daily Mail or one of those rags used to publish articles about how you can get cancer from just about everything and anything, from drinking water to having a light on. There are however more things out in the open that could mean someone is a racist but Ill be honest most of those I thought were always common knowledge anyway.

I mean remember the argument on here about the guy that attacked Owen Jones having nazi crap and people here were saying that doesnt mean hes a nazi type person. Hilarious.
200sols said:
I'm not victimised. You are the one who always seems offended on behalf of others. Nice race war you are trying to start.

Nice edit as well. You assumed people from Hampshire are white? Racist.
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:rolleyes:
 
I don't see colour, which literally means to most "normal white people" they don't discriminate by race or accent or anything, they treat everyone as an individual, until they prove themself to be worthy, has been redefined to be racist because... why?

here's one lunatics opinion. https://www.erfandaliri.com/blog/idontseecolour

apparently its an attack or discussion, meant to derail it.... Oh... Ok...

This statement of not seeing race or colour may seem as though it is benign, innocent and well-meaning, but it's actually just another attempt at the erasure of cultural heritage and diversity; a mechanism which the colonial project employed with such devastating repercussions that Indigenous people all over the world are still reeling from its effects.
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errrrrrr lol

I can 100% guarantee you that i wouldn't treat a "white" person with anymore automatic respect than any other non white person. Maybe its just street smarts i dunno? Maybe its just growing up in London? God i actually don't get this at all.

Tomorrow at work ill chat to the "Africkan swede" i ll be with most of the day and ill ask him what its like to hunt with spears and walk 50km to get water.... I wonder if he can relate to that. We usually just talk about family, cars and stupid misconceptions of Britain. Its all so Boring.
 
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200sols said:
I'm not victimised. You are the one who always seems offended on behalf of others. Nice race war you are trying to start.

Nice edit as well. You assumed people from Hampshire are white? Racist.
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I will refer to you as "side line sols" from now on, given your innate ability to randomly show up, toss in some throwaway remark, and then disappear. :cool:
 
200sols said:
Your views are so entrenched there is no debating with you.
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Coming from the man who lives in an area 91.8% white with the remainder made up of 3.2% further white people (Irish, Polish). I see why you find it so hard to be anything but ignorant, dismissive and downright dumb to any of these issues.
 
dLockers said:
Coming from the man who lives in an area 91.8% white with the remainder made up of 3.2% further white people (Irish, Polish). I see why you find it so hard to be anything but ignorant, dismissive and downright dumb to any of these issues.
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This is the problem with you, your idea of racism just seems to be white people born in white majority countries. You are judging people based on their skin colour - classic racism.
 
200sols said:
This is the problem with you, your idea of racism just seems to be white people born in white majority countries. You are judging people based on their skin colour - classic racism.
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Nope, it just includes white people who seem to be only talking about racism when they are excluded from the statistics. This very thread being the exact example.
 
200sols said:
This is the problem with you, your idea of racism just seems to be white people born in white majority countries. You are judging people based on their skin colour - classic racism.
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You won't get the last word in ever but you can get the best word in which it seems you have.
 
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