Been out the game. What CPUs are coming up?

[MartinPrince]

it has a silly price premium because of the 3d cache gimmick which isnt all that helpful above 1080 anyway

you could get a better cpu for the same money like a 12700k or whatever

Surely it depends on the particular games you are playing? If you are into sim racing and VR or MS Flight Simulator then apparently the X3D is streets ahead of anything else at the moment irrespective of resolution.

 

[VortexA1]

You are in a perfect position for a simple drop in CPU upgrade to Ryzen 5800X3D. Rest of your system is just fine.
It is currently tied for best gaming CPU, so won't be bad even as new generations launch.

Zen4 is released 15th Sep, Intel Rapter Lake should be end of Oct.

I've been reading that at 1440p the 5900x is slightly better with its faster clock and no slouch with the 'I think' 72mb cache.

 

[arknor]

It's the fastest gaming CPU on the market and outperforms the 12900K for less money. It's not stupid. It's not a gimmick. It brings the AM4 socket strongly back into the performance race which means peoples systems will last longer.

and how much does it out perform a 12700k in gaming and then outside of gaming it's getting slaughtered for the same price point.

it's a waste of money, just wait for next gen and get whatever normal CPU is in that price point as it will likely batter the 5800x3d anyway

 

[Frenzy]

I would wait for Zen 4, which is due to be released on 15th Sept.

Worth waiting, as the AM5 platform is planned to support CPU upgrades for ~5 years.

The only caveat here, is that as usual, the most expensive chipsets (X670 and x670E) for motherboards are launching first. People will have to wait to buy the cheaper B650/B650E boards. These boards should arrive in 2022, but it's not certain:

Socket AM5 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 'B' series will still support CPU overclocking.

If you're considering an Intel build, there's a few things to know:
1. LGA1700 socket won't support CPUs beyond 13th gen
2. Intel's 13th gen is using the same Golden Cove architecture as the 12th gen (but optimized).
3. 12/13th gen CPUs don't support the memory controller (IMC) running at 1:1 with DDR5 RAM, at any frequency

is point 3 a significant issue? I've also been out of the game for a while (see sig)

 

[JollyJamma]

and how much does it out perform a 12700k in gaming and then outside of gaming it's getting slaughtered for the same price point.

it's a waste of money, just wait for next gen and get whatever normal CPU is in that price point as it will likely batter the 5800x3d anyway

Ok cool story bro

 

[alec]

I've been reading that at 1440p the 5900x is slightly better with its faster clock and no slouch with the 'I think' 72mb cache.

I have not seen that.
At 1440p the graphics card is the all encompassing bottleneck and differences between CPUs are so tiny it doesn't matter.
Yes, in some cases the difference in clock speed may put a different CPU slightly ahead. But games in general love high amount of cache.
Large cache of 5900X is not the same category tho as it is split between CCDs, so any separate task only sees half of it.

5900X is no slouch in games and could be better for multithreaded tasks.
But if you are leaning towards it, then you would definitely see benefit from waiting for next gen CPUs. Combination of higher IPC, higher clockspeed, higher TDP, and higher memory bandwidth means 12 core 7900X will be ahead of 5900X in all possible workloads.

 

[KompuKare]

It's the fastest gaming CPU on the market and outperforms the 12900K for less money. It's not stupid. It's not a gimmick. It brings the AM4 socket strongly back into the performance race which means peoples systems will last longer.

Literally everyone else thinks it's a great innovation.

Maybe some people just love tuning their CPUs to the extreme?!

It's not that 5800x3D doesn't benefit from faster memory but as far as tweaking goes, 12900K certainly has more options. Eventually - and at the expense of perf/watt and perf/costs - the top Alder Lake can outperform 5800x3D but if the choice is between clever vs brute force, I'd rather clever.

 

[JollyJamma]

I think people have been sitting too close to the open tin of paint thinners labelled “Intel is the only answer” whilst writing their posts.

 

[Bencher]

It's the fastest gaming CPU on the market and outperforms the 12900K for less money.

It outperforms the 12900k?

I mean come on...when you put good memory on both 12900k >>> 5800x 3d

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Intel Core i9-12900KS: Wann der L3-Cache hilft - und wann nicht [Update]

Großes Update: Die zwei CPU-Giganten geben sich die Hände, doch wann skaliert ein Titel mit viel L3-Cache und wann mit viel Takt - und warum?

www.pcgameshardware.de

 

[g67575]

is point 3 a significant issue? I've also been out of the game for a while (see sig)

Maybe not. If the RAM frequency is high enough, it might help to make up for the memory controller running at half speed. But, when the 12th gen launched, they found that high spec DDR4 could outperform DDR5 running at lower frequencies (e.g 4800mhz).

In another thread, I mentioned that in many games there isn't much in it between Alder Lake and Zen 3, that there is more to than just raw IPC and clock speeds. So, I suppose there's an argument to go with either (but the 12700 is generally ahead).

 

[Bencher]

Maybe not. If the RAM frequency is high enough, it might help to make up for the memory controller running at half speed. But, when the 12th gen launched, they found that high spec DDR4 could outperform DDR5 running at lower frequencies (e.g 4800mhz).

Ofc ddr4 is faster than ddr5 at 4800mhz. But now we have cheap hynix kits doing 7000c30, the 3d doesn;t stand a chance. I mean its a great gaming CPU out of the box, but its not comparable to a tuned 12900k

 

[g67575]

What are you basing this on?

The logic for this relies on a cheaper motherboard and RAM too. Doesn't make much sense to get high end RAM + motherboard on a quad core CPU (unless you plan to upgrade asap when the next gen arrives in 2024).

 

[VortexA1]

I have not seen that.
At 1440p the graphics card is the all encompassing bottleneck and differences between CPUs are so tiny it doesn't matter.
Yes, in some cases the difference in clock speed may put a different CPU slightly ahead. But games in general love high amount of cache.
Large cache of 5900X is not the same category tho as it is split between CCDs, so any separate task only sees half of it.

5900X is no slouch in games and could be better for multithreaded tasks.
But if you are leaning towards it, then you would definitely see benefit from waiting for next gen CPUs. Combination of higher IPC, higher clockspeed, higher TDP, and higher memory bandwidth means 12 core 7900X will be ahead of 5900X in all possible workloads.

I have seen different but yes it's very close. I play at 1440p and the 5900x is cheaper so as an end game cpu on this socket that's what i personally would choose even though it's just gaming lol. I do see where you're coming from of course.

 

[Frenzy]

Maybe not. If the RAM frequency is high enough, it might help to make up for the memory controller running at half speed. But, when the 12th gen launched, they found that high spec DDR4 could outperform DDR5 running at lower frequencies (e.g 4800mhz).

In another thread, I mentioned that in many games there isn't much in it between Alder Lake and Zen 3, that there is more to than just raw IPC and clock speeds. So, I suppose there's an argument to go with either (but the 12700 is generally ahead).

Ofc ddr4 is faster than ddr5 at 4800mhz. But now we have cheap hynix kits doing 7000c30, the 3d doesn;t stand a chance. I mean its a great gaming CPU out of the box, but its not comparable to a tuned 12900k

I've done some light reading and came across something on reddit saying 6000 ddr5 should start seeing similar performance to ddr4 4800. With 8000 outperforming. they explained it as the ddr4 having tighter timings but the extra speed for ddr5 will make up for this.

 

[g67575]

What people are saying about the 5800X3D being outpaced by systems with DDR5 RAM - True in some cases, but that's really just another reason to wait for the 8-12 core V-Cache version of Zen 4. The cost of the 8 core version should be pretty similar to the 5800X3D.

Regarding getting the best out of DDR5, I would have thought running the IMC at 1:1 (in the highest supported frequency) and setting modules to the lowest CAS latency would get the best results, so it might be possible to do this on modules rated for high DDR5 frequencies, e.g. 7000mhz.

The lowest CL I've seen on DDR5 (with tweaking) is 24.

 

[uscool]

it has a silly price premium because of the 3d cache gimmick which isnt all that helpful above 1080 anyway

you could get a better cpu for the same money like a 12700k or whatever

He already has the motherboard it would end up costing more buying 12700k + motherboard and it's primarily for gaming and the 5800x3d outperforms it while costing less no motherboard needed

I would personally wait for zen4 not long to wait see how it performs and pricing although being ddr5 only can't see zen 3 price increasing and decide once you know performance of the new stuff

 

[arknor]

He already has the motherboard it would end up costing more buying 12700k + motherboard and it's primarily for gaming and the 5800x3d outperforms it while costing less no motherboard needed

I would personally wait for zen4 not long to wait see how it performs and pricing can only see zen3 dropping some more

I wasn't saying get a 12700k just a comparison of how it's over priced for what it is..... most people could game on a normal 5800 and not notice a difference

 

[uscool]

I wasn't saying get a 12700k just a comparison of how it's over priced for what it is..... most people could game on a normal 5800 and not notice a difference

Why mention it when it will end up costing more ? In what the op situation is ? Really isn't any help so in that case he could just drop in the 5800x so costing even less?

 

[Bencher]

Regarding getting the best out of DDR5, I would have thought running the IMC at 1:1 (in the highest supported frequency) and setting modules to the lowest CAS latency would get the best results, so it might be possible to do this on modules rated for high DDR5 frequencies, e.g. 7000mhz.

The lowest CL I've seen on DDR5 (with tweaking) is 24.

How can you run 7000mhz ddr5 at 1:1? The imc on alderlake can't go over 2000mhz (cometlake could do up to 2300mhz), so that means ddr4 @ 4000mhz Gear 1 and ddr5 @ 8000mhz gear 2. 7000mhz 1:1 means the IMC has to run at 3.500mhz, which obviously cannot happen

 

[beany_bot]

Thanks for all the input guys. What I'm going to do is wait for zen 4, to both see how it performs and to drop 5xxx prices maybe. but probably will buy a 5xxx cpu anyway. Drop in "itch scratch". New GPU next year. Zen 4 in 2024. Sound ok?