Beheading at Notre-Dame basilica in Nice

[Nasher]

It is when you put it ahead of your own countrymen.

 

[m@rty]

It may be time to start carrying some kind of personal defence. What kind of weapon is legal here? A very small non-locking knife appears to be, but it's dodgy ground if there is no reason to carry it. What else?

Keyboard

 

[McBain]

Sigh.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Oh France...

 

[Greebo]

The crusades where in direct response to repeated Islamic invasion of Christian lands?

No it wasnt. It was just to try and claim Jerusalem for Christians and also solved the problem that knights were bored and were continually fighting with each other. For years Christianity had been pushing the Muslims back and claiming land from them.

The First Crusade was called in November 1095 by Pope Urban II at the town of Clermont in central France. The pope made a proposal: 'Whoever for devotion alone, but not to gain honour or money, goes to Jerusalem to liberate the Church of God can substitute this journey for all penance.' This appeal was the combination of a number of contemporary trends along with the inspiration of Urban himself, who added particular innovations to the mix. For several decades Christians had been pushing back at Muslim lands on the edge of Europe, in the Iberian peninsula, for example, as well as in Sicily. In some instances the Church had become involved in these events through the offer of limited spiritual rewards for participants.

Urban was responsible for the spiritual well-being of his flock and the crusade presented an opportunity for the sinful knights of western Europe to cease their endless in-fighting and exploitation of the weak (lay people and churchmen alike) and to make good their violent lives. Urban saw the campaign as a chance for knights to direct their energies towards what was seen as a spiritually meritorious act, namely the recovery of the holy city of Jerusalem from Islam (the Muslims had taken Jerusalem in 637). In return for this they would, in effect, be forgiven those sins they had confessed. This, in turn, would save them from the prospect of eternal damnation in the fires of Hell, a fate repeatedly emphasised by the Church as the consequence of a sinful life.

Within an age of such intense religiosity the city of Jerusalem, as the place where Christ lived, walked and died, held a central role. When the aim of liberating Jerusalem was coupled to lurid (probably exaggerated) stories of the maltreatment of both the Levant's native Christians and western pilgrims, the desire for vengeance, along with the opportunity for spiritual advancement, formed a hugely potent combination. Urban would be looking after his flock and improving the spiritual condition of western Europe, too. The fact that the papacy was engaged in a mighty struggle with the German emperor, Henry IV (the Investiture Controversy), and that calling the crusade would enhance the pope's standing was an opportunity too good for Urban to miss.

A spark to this dry tinder came from another Christian force: the Byzantine Empire. Emperor Alexios I feared the advance of the Seljuk Turks towards his capital city of Constantinople. The Byzantines were Greek Orthodox Christians but, since 1054, had been in a state of schism with the Catholic Church. The launch of the crusade presented Urban with a chance to move closer to the Orthodox and to heal the rift.

You might try and argue it was just to try and take back what the Muslims had claimed 400 years early. But that would like today Britain deciding to take back all the countries we used to own as part of the British Empire by invading them and then trying to blame it on the other countries.

 

[Hades]

I know right, attack in another country and OP wants to start carrying a knife.

Yes because there have been absolutely no similar attacks in this or other European countries. Oh wait...

 

[Hades]

Keyboard

Yes

 

[413x]

I don't particularly like Macron as a politician but I admire him for standing up for a secular society in France. Religion should be entirely personal and to be honest kept off the street.

Same. I like the French stance on protecting thier values.

You have to wonder if these religious nuts would be capable of this without them being able to "legitimising" it due to religion?

I mean without that, they are still obviously crazy. But would it get this far?


Ugh religion. What a scourge in our society.
Most religious people (the vast majority) are fine. But I still don't like religion. Its just another way to bucket up and divide people.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Same. I like the French stance on protecting thier values.

He will be under a great deal of internal pressure to go after those behind this and root out radical preachers. If he doesn’t, the French right will gain enormous support.

 

[dacads]

Religion isn't crazy, people are

These people aren't Muslims they're terrorists

There's so many people you wouldn't even know are Muslim

And this is speaking as a non Muslim

 

[413x]

He will be under a great deal of internal pressure to go after those behind this and root out radical preachers. If he doesn’t, the French right will gain enormous support.

Yeah that's one thing. The French people actually have a backbone and will want action.

Over here we'd do nothing

 

[RossGReds]

Religion isn't crazy, people are

These people aren't Muslims they're terrorists

There's so many people you wouldn't even know are Muslim

They are both.

 

[dacads]

They are both.

They think they are, personally I don't class them as muslim

Just think of the actual Muslims that are in danger and killed by these terrorists in the far East etc

Media doesn't report those killings

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Religion isn't crazy, people are

These people aren't Muslims they're terrorists

There's so many people you wouldn't even know are Muslim

And this is speaking as a non Muslim

No true Scotsman fallacy.

 

[Hagar]

Yeah that's one thing. The French people actually have a backbone and will want action.

Over here we'd do nothing

When we got up off our knees. I have said before that the police could do worse then import some of the french police handbook.

 

[Lysander]

actual Muslims

There is not one type of Muslim: maybe you are conflating religious fundamentalists and e.g. secularists. Both are Muslims, just different types.

 

[Roar87]

Religion isn't crazy, people are

These people aren't Muslims they're terrorists

There's so many people you wouldn't even know are Muslim

And this is speaking as a non Muslim

You can't dismiss every person following an ideology who does terrible things as crazy, that's just something you want to believe so you don't have to examine some hard truths.

 

[robgmun]

One day people will fight back.

I thought that until we did nothing after they killed our kids in the Manchester bomb, now I think we're spineless

 

[dacads]

You can't dismiss every person following an ideology who does terrible things as crazy, that's just something you want to believe so you don't have to examine some hard truths.

Ideology being the key word? Like I said I don't regard anyone condoning violence as a Muslim.

I'm sure there are people here that know or have Muslim friends, where do they stand? As soon as there's a killing everyone starts hating Muslims.. this generalisation is just wrong IMO and creating more hate and danger.

 

[GGizmo]

I think with religion there is a cultural aspect. People can be culturally of a religion but not actually be reading any holy books or attending any church.

It's usually these cultural people who tend to be the most extreme, like they are proving themselves.

From what I can tell from the stories the people who were murdered had nothing to do with anything. They were innocent people. This murderer has committed a sin.