Beheading at Notre-Dame basilica in Nice

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BowdonUK said:
I think with religion there is a cultural aspect. People can be culturally of a religion but not actually be reading any holy books or attending any church.

It's usually these cultural people who tend to be the most extreme, like they are proving themselves.
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I think it's the other way round. Secular Muslims, in my experience, do not attend mosque and do not pray five times a day, but they still believe in the teachings of the Qu'ran even though they don't read it daily. They're actually the least offensive and most progressive types.

Whereas those who pray five times a day, avidly read the Qu'ran and the Hadith and have very traditional values are more likely to be indoctrinated into that bracket: however, even then it is not that cut and dried - there's a whole host of reasons as to why people end up in religious extremism, and it's mostly bound up in circumstance, situation and psychology.
 
dacads said:
Ideology being the key word? Like I said I don't regard anyone condoning violence as a Muslim.

I'm sure there are people here that know or have Muslim friends, where do they stand? As soon as there's a killing everyone starts hating Muslims.. this generalisation is just wrong IMO and creating more hate and danger.
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Yeah a lot of people in the UK regard themselves as Christian because they were baptised, but they don't attend church or really follow any of the beliefs. Similarly there are a lot of people who regard themselves as Muslim to keep their parents happy, but they're about as Muslim as you or I. So when we say the vast majority are peaceful it doesn't change the fact that Islam as an ideology is incompatible with liberal democratic western ideology. I'm really not sure why people are so keen to point out that the majority of Muslims are peaceful as if that's some how indicative of the ideology. The majority of people in general are peaceful but it doesn't change the fact that some belief systems are just not good
 
BowdonUK said:
I think with religion there is a cultural aspect. People can be culturally of a religion but not actually be reading any holy books or attending any church.

It's usually these cultural people who tend to be the most extreme, like they are proving themselves.

From what I can tell from the stories the people who were murdered had nothing to do with anything. They were innocent people. This murderer has committed a sin.
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Its funny because I have a few friends that say they believe in god (the bible one) yet they commit sins constantly. I often point this out to them and tell them if the book is true they will end up in hell, which if you go by the desciptions and if true is going to be ******* horrible.

Being non religious I am able to commit sins freely without any real concern about heaven or hell or offending my god. Im very confused by people that say they believe in the word of god being arsehats.
 
Roar87 said:
Yeah a lot of people in the UK regard themselves as Christian because they were baptised, but they don't attend church or really follow any of the beliefs. Similarly there are a lot of people who regard themselves as Muslim to keep their parents happy, but they're about as Muslim as you or I. So when we say the vast majority are peaceful it doesn't change the fact that Islam as an ideology is incompatible with liberal democratic western ideology. I'm really not sure why people are so keen to point out that the majority of Muslims are peaceful as if that's some how indicative of the ideology. The majority of people in general are peaceful but it doesn't change the fact that some belief systems are just not good
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Exactly I agree with what you said, but then where do the killings etc come from? Those shouldn't be part of the belief system IMO , and if they are then not being followed correctly as no true religion would condone violence unless it was necessary.

But maybe I'm fantasising about what religion should be.

I just don't like the generalisation not only with Muslims but religion in general.

And yes I know most have been watered down and become corrupt now, like mentioned those not following aren't really religious so probably shouldnt be classified as such by themselves or others.
 
@Tony Edwards What you're saying is completely wrong. You are allowed and expected to sin, because you are imperfect and have free will. You have to repent and seek forgiveness. This is the fundamental point of Christianity and why it is separate from Judaism and other Abrahamic religions. It's not "Oh you committed one sin, off to hell with you". Please, don't talk about something for which you have no understanding.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Its funny because I have a few friends that say they believe in god (the bible one) yet they commit sins constantly.
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I know people who are hard-line Christians and they are the most corrupt people I know. They regularly cheat, lie and steal, but bash their Bible daily to show their pseudo-morality. It actually lends weight to my earlier point that fundamentalists are largely psychologically vulnerable, so they end up in religion for direction but use it as a cover [or an excuse] for their misdoings. It's actually not about religion at all.
 
Hades said:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...n-knife-attack-at-french-church-idUKKBN27E177

Sadly another attack in France from the usual peaceful crew. One woman beheaded and two others killed in or near one of the largest churches in Europe. RIP to those killed. It may be time to start carrying some kind of personal defence. What kind of weapon is legal here? A very small non-locking knife appears to be, but it's dodgy ground if there is no reason to carry it. What else?
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This is what happens when you take away people's rights to self defence, the criminals have weapons while the victims are unarmed and unable to defend themselves.
 
Mason- said:
@Tony Edwards What you're saying is completely wrong. You are allowed and expected to sin. You have to repent and seek forgiveness. This is the fundamental point of Christianity and why it is separate from Judaism and other Abrahamic religions. It's not "Oh you committed one sin, off to hell with you". Please, don't talk about something for which you have no understanding.
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So a bit like being a vegetarian that eats bacon sandwiches but feels guilty about it then?
 
Closing Mosques will only make it worse. There is a Muslim population in Europe, there's no changing that (without pretty much forcefully deporting every Muslim from the continent). Most are normal people, some are complete mentalists, there's also no changing that.

If you start closing Mosques you'll just start convincing more of the normal people that actually their religion is under attack and they'll join the ranks of nutters trying to wage a holy war against the West.

That's not to say I have an easy answer to problem of this type of fundamentalism but I don't see that action like closing Mosques is going to do anything more than stoke the fire.
 
Kenai said:
Closing Mosques will only make it worse. There is a Muslim population in Europe, there's no changing that (without pretty much forcefully deporting every Muslim from the continent). Most are normal people, some are complete mentalists, there's also no changing that.

If you start closing Mosques you'll just start convincing more of the normal people that actually their religion is under attack and they'll join the ranks of nutters trying to wage a holy war against the West.

That's not to say I have an easy answer to problem of this type of fundamentalism but I don't see that action like closing Mosques is going to do anything more than stoke the fire.
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Who is suggesting closing mosques? I agree though, closing mosques would be probably about the worst thing anyone could do.
 
deuse said:
RIP to the dead.

I see it's the Usual suspects again!
Muslims have now killed over 86 people in Nice.

One day people will fight back.

Religion is for nutters and stupid people in my opinion.
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The problem is how to fight back and not make it worse when we’ve already freely allowed insurgents into Europe.
 
Lysander said:
Who is suggesting closing mosques? I agree though, closing mosques would be probably about the worst thing anyone could do.
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In response to posts like these:
deuse said:
If the scum start again here.
It's time to close down the mosques where it all starts.
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CaptainRAVE said:
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happens. It’s a shame to punish the majority who are innocent, but they may well need to send a message such as this.
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