Belgian Grand Prix 2015, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 11/19

smr said:
They've had to change things to fix reliability now, air intakes/ cooling / engine housings etc. the size zero concept has gone, tbh with all the quotes from Arai I don't know what to think anymore, the PU is obviously a dog but the chassis is probably quite decent, but then you get Arai saying it's the chassis holding the PU back. It is a mess indeed.
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The size zero hasn't gone at all and they haven't made the car substantially bigger at all. The base chassis is unlikely to have changed at all. THere is far more to a great car than just the aero. It's mercs brakes, bbw, suspension that makes it drive so damn well through corners, keep tracking and power down in corners that other cars can't.

Being small doesn't mean the air is being worked well. It doesn't look great in suspension/driveability. Even today you would saw a TR taking a much tighter/faster line in some corners and eating that Mclaren alive. It's supposedly, according to some people, fast in corners but I've seen very little evidence of that in races.

The small you can make the bodywork the more air you can channel to the back of the car but you have to actually do something with all that air. There are pretty much dozens/hundreds of little points, curves, bumps, holes, slits all over the car creating vortexes, directing the air, pushing it where it's needed and working it into downforce. Making the car small is one part of the equation, working it right is the more important, harder and takes a lot longer to fine tune part. The drivers have said the car lacks down force multiple times. It may/may not be a low drag base to work from but it's pretty much irrelevant.

IF Honda finally make a competitive engine it could be a very different shape and require huge changes to the aero.


What I wanted to know is when Ferrari brought in the engine guys they did last year. Was it after preseason testing and then they spent a year working on improving ERS specifically but the engine? Honda quite clearly have refused to bring in expert help up to now and don't look to have changed direction. Even if they made the same decisions Ferrari made and focused on ERS, moving compressor out of the V, increasing the size of compressor/turbine and getting it all cooler, if they started now could they even be ready for the start of 2016 with basically half a year less than Ferrari probably took to do the same job(from an initially much more reliable engine)? I think Honda are stuck with this concept for next year and it will improve but not hugely. 2017 I think we'll see a Ferrari style change to the engine and chassis to go along with it.
 
V F said:
McLaren seem to be in a real mess. I thought the great Ron coming back was to make things better? Even Martin Whitmarsh was never as bad as this.
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Why would it be better they were just as crap under him before. Red Bull managed to be more consistent and competitive in a few years. The only thing Mclaren do consistently is get their butts kicked by smaller teams, with smaller budgets. Even Merc have now built the best car by some margin two years on the trot.

My memory isn't good enough to remember when Ron's grey army did the same. Sadly the last time they stank the joint up so wonderfully one of my favs drove for them, same again this year.

I look forward to them parting ways with Honda.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Why would it be better they were just as crap under him before. Red Bull managed to be more consistent and competitive in a few years. The only thing Mclaren do consistently is get their butts kicked by smaller teams, with smaller budgets. Even Merc have now built the best car by some margin two years on the trot.

My memory isn't good enough to remember when Ron's grey army did the same. Sadly the last time they stank the joint up so wonderfully one of my favs drove for them, same again this year.

I look forward to them parting ways with Honda.
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Probably when Mika Hakkinen won in 1998 and 1999.
 
UTmaniac said:
Why is Vettel kicking off so much about his tyre failure, after what, something like 28 laps?

When Pirelli were clearly stating a 2-stop strategy was required today. Which Ferarri decided to override.
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Flibster said:
Before the race from Pirelli the predicted life of that tyre was 23 laps. I believe, although my maths skills aren't what they used to be, that 28 is more than 23?

Can't really see any blame on Pirelli tbh.
100% Ferrari.

The Sky interview was a bit lame, anyone know if the BBC one is uploaded anywhere? ;)
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koolpc said:
Hamilton aced it again! Awesome.

Vettel a sour puss. Pushed tyre too far! Didn't he ask the team if he should come in?
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Glaucus said:
Rofl, at the it's Pirelli dangerous death tires, what absolute nonsense, it was clear tho everyone, that he had zero grip fir several laps and those tires were beypund shagged.

Saying there was no warning, haha. No just sliding out of every corner due to zero tires left. Combine that with kerbs and yup have only one outcome.

Ferrari to blame.
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I see the OCUK F1 experts and tyre engineers are out in force :)

Alain Permane (Lotus): “If Pirelli tells us the tyres last 40 laps, they can’t possibly blow up after 28 laps. For us a one-stop strategy was only a backup plan, but we considered it as well.”

Andy Green (Force India): “If Vettel’s tyres had been worn out, he’d have come into the pits. As soon as the rubber is worn below 30% the lap times go up by two to three seconds and tyre temperatures drop from 140°C to 110°C. You’re driving on ice in that case, you won’t even get anywhere near critical wear. Your team would call you in long before that happens.”

Maurizio Arrivabene (Ferrari): “A one-stop race was our plan A. We decided that at 11am, using the data the engineers had collected during the practice sessions. There was a Pirelli engineer standing in our garage and he wasn’t just chewing bubblegum. He would have intervened if the data had shown anything suspicious. Our strategy was aggressive, but not risky.”
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But what do these guys know compared to the OCUK couch experts...lol
 
Lap time data suggests no significant increase in laptime prior to blow out which suggests he hadnt reached the cliff as it were, but is it possible that due to setup overall grip levels of the tyre were still reasonable but there was excessive wear to one part where the delamination started? I dunno, i'm just thinking out loud, i dont have anymore info than what the media put out there.
At the end of the day Ferrari took a risk, and thats what F1 is all about, sometimes it pays off sometimes it dosnt, this time unfortunately for Vettel it didnt.
 
https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/635499569804087297

Very similar visually to the Michelin failures at Indy 2005, though the Michelin failures were at the shoulder and sidewall, and Rosberg's certainly wasn't, and Vettel's didn't look like a failure in the sidewall either... obviously both Vettel's and Rosbergs failures were on the right-rear too, after the much less demanding left-hand kink at the top of Raidillon.

I've uploaded a photo of the Michelin & Bridgestone tyres at Indy below.

indy2005-tyre-small.jpg
 
Glaucus said:
What do Pirelli know, who have said it was tire deg.
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Ah these must be new Pirelli tyres where they show no laptime drop off....lol

Hembrey is off course not going to admit any liability just like they never for Nico's anyone with any sense would work that out.
 
I don't think there's ever been a more difficult time to be a McLaren fan. Interesting that Alonso's been in to see Red Bull just over half a season in - that's normally how these things start.

I think JB's interview responses were pretty honest and about as supportive as he could be. This season is nothing short of an embarrassment. No signs of improvement after Singapore and I think he'll leave F1. There's nowhere else for him to go.

Vandoorne and Magnussen should be looking elsewhere down the grid, rather than queuing for up a seat at McLaren.
 
I'd have expected a blow out like that if Vettel was fishtailing the thing all over the place - but hey ho - he wasn't!

The car didn't look as if it was even close to driving on ice - which is tell tale sign that the tyres NEED replacing.

It should not have blown like it did, and the ****storm surrounding Pirelli if it had have happened 200m earlier would be immeasurable right now. Hembrey put on a bloody controlled face in that interview, he's done well there to keep his emotions in check. Very lucky we're not discussing an accident right now and he knows it.
 
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