Belgium Grand Prix 2010, Spa-Francorchamps Circuit - Race 13/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Moveable front wing flap electronics.
I obviously missed the part where Button had the car designed COMPLETELY around his requirements for THREE whole seasons as LH has had since he joined the team
But of COURSE that doesnt count at all does it
You might want to stick to a sport you know about (if any, given the abuse you get in the football forum re Arsenal especially)
Button took a pay CUT to join McLaren
Last edited:
He halved his previous Salary at Honda when 'moving' to Brawn, surely he didn't become World Champion and then drive for even less again?
I think he's on less than what Brawn/Mercedes supposedly offered him to stay but i'm pretty sure it's a bigger paycheque than last year still.
Last edited:
I obviously missed the part where Button had the car designed COMPLETELY around his requirements for THREE whole seasons as LH has had since he joined the team
But of COURSE that doesnt count at all does it
Neither had Lewis when he started to drive for Mclaren in the first place or Alonso or Alonso this year at ferrari. Neither has Rosberg or Kubica, they though have manned the **** up and got on with beating their team mates.
So you really think it will make a difference next year when he has another 12 months in the car? Or will he still be 2nd best moaning about balance?
Of course he will, the BAR/Honda/Brawn was built around him for years yet even in his championship winning year he spent most of the season crying about balance.
So to use the excuse that the car wasn't built around him just doesnt cut it.
Yes but the point still stands if he was after the money he would have stayed where he was and been the big fish in the small pond. he was offered more to stay than go.
Associate
- Joined
- 10 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 1,099
- Location
- London
Good race, but christ Vettels a twit.
What I find particularly funny is that Vettel has been a perfect 2nd driver for Webber in the last 2 races. First he effectively gives up his first place for Webber by holding the pack up under the SC, then he takes out the 2 cars in front of Webber to move him from 4th to 2nd. It's amazing. If we didn't all know that RB wanted Vettel to win we'd be saying they were cheating.
That would be an amazing double bluff...
What I find particularly funny is that Vettel has been a perfect 2nd driver for Webber in the last 2 races. First he effectively gives up his first place for Webber by holding the pack up under the SC, then he takes out the 2 cars in front of Webber to move him from 4th to 2nd. It's amazing. If we didn't all know that RB wanted Vettel to win we'd be saying they were cheating.
That would be an amazing double bluff...
Good race, but christ Vettels a twit.
What I find particularly funny is that Vettel has been a perfect 2nd driver for Webber in the last 2 races. First he effectively gives up his first place for Webber by holding the pack up under the SC, then he takes out the 2 cars in front of Webber to move him from 4th to 2nd. It's amazing. If we didn't all know that RB wanted Vettel to win we'd be saying they were cheating.
That would be an amazing double bluff...
You know...you could be on to something here.
Seriously, he is playing the role of the completely dedicated No.2 driver, willing to risk everything for his team-leader.
What I thought was very odd, was what he did in Hungary - that is exactly the sort of thing that a No.2 driver would do, for his team-leader.
Associate
- Joined
- 10 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 1,099
- Location
- London
I doubt Vettel rammed into Button on purpose, if it was it would look more like what Barrichello did, much better chance of hitting the car in front.
Vettel as a 2nd driver, come on, even if he is in last place in the standings and Webber is first he still would get preferential treatment.
I so hope Vettel runs wide at the chicane at Monzo twice and gets another drive-through with him making hand gestures in the pitlane, comedy gold
Vettel as a 2nd driver, come on, even if he is in last place in the standings and Webber is first he still would get preferential treatment.
I so hope Vettel runs wide at the chicane at Monzo twice and gets another drive-through with him making hand gestures in the pitlane, comedy gold
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
Was it me, or did Leggard keep saying that Hamilton wouldn't be leading the WDC standings if "results stay as they are".. in the last lap?
Perhaps he had a bad math day but it was a pretty basic error
Perhaps he had a bad math day but it was a pretty basic error
Are you talking about Sunama, or Vettel?
Associate
- Joined
- 10 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 1,099
- Location
- London
I bear stupidity to everyone.
This is the first time I've been accused of sucking up to Button - NUTS!!!
BrawnGP did indeed have the best car, but Button still had to beat his team-mate. He won something like 6 out of 7 races. I believe no other driver except for MS has matched/beaten this record (perhaps someone can look that one up). In any case, that is an awesome achievement and average drivers are not capable of this.
Even Vettel, who many rate highly, has not managed to even come close to this, in a car which is the class of the field, this year.
Button did very well in 2009.
I agree that Button is not the best driver. IMO Alonso and Hamilton are easily ahead of him. However, notice that you have used the name of Hamilton there. Hamilton is currently the fastest driver in F1 and some may say he is the out and out best driver in F1. It is also quite possible that he could go on to break many of MS's world records and become the all-time greatest driver in F1. Comparing any driver currently in F1 (bar MS/Alonso), to Hamilton is unfair. And just because you are not as good as Hamilton, doesnt mean you are bad driver.
To go up against Hamilton, in "his" team requires immense courage. Off the top of my head there are only a few driver in the history of F1, who would have the guts to go up against the established No.1 driver, who also happens to be one of (if not) the best driver in F1. Senna and Mansell are perhaps the only other top line drivers who I can think of, who would have the courage to put their reputation on the line and race on Hamilton's terms. People like Prost, MS, Alonso, wouldn't even think about something so crazy...well, unless they had something in their contract which states that they get preferential treatment.
I agree 100%. But then Hamilton is probably the fastest driver in F1. No driver, including Alonso has Hamilton's outright pace. HOWEVER, the likes of Alonso and Button can make up for the speed deficit by making better strategic decisions (which is where Hamilton is lacking).
Most of the F1 audience, including myself, Brundle, Whitmarsh, all thought that Button was crazy doing what he did. As it turns out, he out did every single team/driver on the grid that day and made a decision that panned out. If Senna had made this decision, everybody would hail him as a genius. Yet when Button does it...he is lucky?
I dont think anybody (apart from JRS), would argue that Button is better is better than Hamilton. Hamilton has upped his game and IMO he is now the "daddy" of F1 (not Alonso). My belief is that it is only a matter of time that Hamilton goes on to break most of MS's world records. But to say that Button is average or a poor driver, just because he is getting beaten consistently by Hamilton is wrong.
Button is VERY similar to Prost and Prost is rated by many as an all time great.
Its just a shame that Button spent so long in a car which was so poor and didnt have the guts at the time, to move to one of the front running teams and display his talents at the front, where he would've been in the spotlight and pitted directly against the likes of Alonso and Hamilton. In any case, in the last 2 years (especially this year), he has made amens...and I like what I see.
Hamilton may win more races than Schumacher but if he sticks at Mclaren his whole career I wouldn't say he was the better driver.
Schumacher going to an also-ran Ferrari team (remember this was the Ferrari V12 alesi / berger days) and turning it into the class of the field was an impressive feat. He had help, clearly, but it still stands out. I suspect part of the attraction of returning to F1 was to do the same again with Mercedes (again under Brawn).
Schumacher going to an also-ran Ferrari team (remember this was the Ferrari V12 alesi / berger days) and turning it into the class of the field was an impressive feat. He had help, clearly, but it still stands out. I suspect part of the attraction of returning to F1 was to do the same again with Mercedes (again under Brawn).
It's not "going to be a matter of time", it's going to take a very long time. Hamilton's had the bonus of being thrown straight into a title-challenging car, whereas Schumacher had to wait until '94 before he had his first real shot at the title. He's still not the complete package, IMO, he's still learning. Remember, this is still only his 4th year in F1. However, when Schumacher ruled the roost, there were generally only 2 constructors vying for the title - Benetton/Williams (94/95), Ferrari/Williams (96/97), Ferrari/McLaren (98-04), McLaren/Renault (05), Ferrari/Renault (06). Now there's also more cars on the grid, and while those obviously aren't all title challengers, there's certainly 3 in with a shout, and if there's going to be 6 drivers battling for the title, all it takes is one of those other teams to have a supreme car á la Ferrari in the early part of the last decade, and they'll be off in the distance.
Only up until silverstone, silverstone is where it all went wrong for Brawn. There is no way the brawn was the best car for anything like half the races last year. He did well to hold onto that lead with the red bulls throwing points away for fun.
As for hamilton beating MS's records not a hope in wins or titles. I'd eat that hat you was supposed to eat if that happens. Mclaren never have the consistency of ferrari in the MS dominant years. They rarely build a dominant car in back to back years. Even in 98/99 they couldn't carry on the dominance like ferrari could year in year out.
This year and last they have been recovering from poor cars. he won't win 7 titles at mclaren, not a chance.
You are right. But then if Hamilton is the "daddy", he won't need to be in the best car to win the title.
In the near future, I only see Hamilton needing to beat Alonso or Vettel. And my belief is that as long as McLaren give him a reasonably competitive car, he will beat Alonso/Vettel, even if McLaren's car is slightly slower than Alonso's or Vettel's. Of course, if Alonso's car is miles better, then it is unlikely Hamilton will be able to make up the difference using his own skill and brute speed.
Last year, I placed Alonso and Hamilton as joint top dogs, but this year, Hamilton has definitely improved and although he is not the complete package, he is good enough to outscore all other drivers, if they were all given equal cars.