Benifets to be a pirate gamer :(

[Zefan]

You can't be serious surely, you think that buying a game secondhand is as bad as pirating a game ?

Yes. There's no benefit to buying second hand over pirating a game (apart from owning the physical packaging/manual - however that is down to personal preference), the developer and publishers don't see a penny either way.

 

[manoz]

Yes. There's no benefit to buying second hand over pirating a game (apart from owning the physical packaging/manual - however that is down to personal preference), the developer and publishers don't see a penny either way.

Your argument is flawed in the sense, that second hand game has been bought first hand already and the dev has made money from it. They can't make any money from pirated software what so ever

 

[Zefan]

Your argument is flawed in the sense, that second hand game has been bought first hand already and the dev has made money from it. They can't make any money from pirated software what so ever

It's not flawed, the second hand game is useless to the developer and may as well have been burned the minute money was handed over for it when it was bought new. Whether I buy a second hand game or download it makes absolutely no difference to the developer.

:edit: Essentially what I'm saying is that the second hand market takes a portion of the sales that may have otherwise gone to buying new, exactly the same argument that is pitched against piracy time and time again.

 

[manoz]

It's not flawed, the second hand game is useless to the developer and may as well have been burned the minute money was handed over for it when it was bought new. Whether I buy a second hand game or download it makes absolutely no difference to the developer.

Yes it does. If you have 2 thousand people who want to play a game. A thousand buy it first hand then sell it to the other thousand second hand then the dev as made 10,000 moneys. (assuming they get 10 per game). If those 2 thousand people obtain the game through piracy, the dev has made nought.

edit: your edit, you could have said that before lol

 

[Zefan]

Yes it does. If you have 2 thousand people who want to play a game. A thousand buy it first hand then sell it to the other thousand second hand then the dev as made 10,000 moneys. (assuming they get 10 per game). If those 2 thousand people obtain the game through piracy, the dev has made nought

You're not getting what I'm saying. The fact that someone has bought it new is totally irrelevant once it's bought - what I'm talking about is the effect that having second hand games available makes on the sales of new games. It's identical to piracy.

You're wrong in saying that whether I buy second hand or pirate makes a difference, it does not. The fact that someone has bought it previously doesn't come in to it, it's either pour money into the retailer's pockets or pour money nowhere.

 

[Mark A]

I buy console games, complete them and then sell them on ebay for a few quid less than i bought them for. Prologue was selling for £20 when you could buy it for £17.99 brand new lol. I really don't see a need to pirate, plus i don't like the idea of getting fined thousands of pounds. Sure its unlikely but its something that would play in the back of my mind.

 

[manoz]

You said devs see no benefit from second hand games over pirated games. At least they make some money from second hand games (indirectly, cos they've been bought first hand) is my argument.

 

[Things change I've changed]

It's identical to piracy.

No it's not identical, one is illegal, the other is not, I sometimes buy secondhand games because they are cheaper, I know my money doesn't go to the publisher/developer and ends up in the pocket of the store or original game owner but at least I am purchasing the game honestly and legally, they way you phrased your original post was to tarnish people that pirate games and people that buy games secondhand under the same brush, that is wrong.

 

[Zefan]

No it's not identical, one is illegal, the other is not, I sometimes buy secondhand games because they are cheaper, I know my money doesn't go to the publisher/developer and ends up in the pocket of the store or original game owner but at least I am purchasing the game honestly and legally, they way you phrased your original post was to tarnish people that pirate games and people that buy games secondhand under the same brush, that is wrong.

Stop taking my points out of context/putting words in my mouth - it was quite clear that I was referring to the effect it has on sales of new games - just read the preceeding sentence :\

As for my original post, if you actually pay attention then it states that I understand that piracy is outside of the law...

I'm merely trying to make people think - you're affecting the industry identically if you buy a second hand game than if you simply pirated it (one could argue that funding retailer's growth benefits the industry, however that's a different question altogether).

You said devs see no benefit from second hand games over pirated games. At least they make some money from second hand games (indirectly, cos they've been bought first hand) is my argument.

As I said before, what happens to a game after it is bought new has no affect on the developer whatsoever. It could be ripped to pieces, used as a frisbee, simply played, or sold again and again and again through multiple people - who otherwise may have bought it new - with no funds passed on to the developer.

 

[manoz]

As I said before, what happens to a game after it is bought new has no affect on the developer whatsoever. It could be ripped to pieces, used as a frisbee, simply played, or sold again and again and again through multiple people - who otherwise may have bought it new - with no funds passed on to the developer.

Thinking about it, you have a point. My original analogy was lame. What do you suggest devs do, ask retailers to give them a share of second hand games? Maybe that has a chance of happening, it's harder for people to people sales though. I usually wait till the games go down in price(still new) if I'm not so desperate for the game

 

[Zefan]

Thinking about it, you have a point. My original analogy was lame. What do you suggest devs do, ask retailers to give them a share of second hand games? Maybe that has a chance of happening, it's harder for people to people sales though. I usually wait till the games go down in price(still new) if I'm not so desperate for the game

I've no idea what the law is really, it's almost certainly a bit of a grey area... I'm pretty sure the publishers have no right to claim a cut of the sales however as they'd already be doing it.

 

[Spyhop]

I'm merely trying to make people think - you're affecting the industry identically if you buy a second hand game than if you simply pirated it.

No. Some people may only buy new games at full price because they know they can sell it on once they're finished with it. If there was no market for second hand games then those people might choose not to spend £40 on something that would be dead weight once they had finished with it.

I do understand what you're saying, and it's hard to weigh up the positives and negatives of the second hand market because some people only buy new games and some people only buy second hand games, but insisting that it has an effect identical to piracy is ridiculous.

 

[Zefan]

No. Some people may only buy new games at full price because they know they can sell it on once they're finished with it. If there was no market for second hand games then those people might choose not to spend £40 on something that would be dead weight once they're finished with it.

I do understand what you're saying, and it's hard to weigh up the positives and negatives of the 2nd hand market because some people only buy new games and some people only buy second hand games, but insisting that it has an effect identical to piracy is ridiculous.

I understand that the possibility of selling on after use gives added value to buying new games, however what I'm talking about is the act of buying second hand. The decision one comes to as whether to buy second hand or pirate a game ultimately won't benefit the developer directly in anyway way.

The affect the added value of re-saleability of new games has on the number of sales is also not a figure we can pin down, so it's not necessarily significant.

 

[manoz]

I've no idea what the law is really, it's almost certainly a bit of a grey area... I'm pretty sure the publishers have no right to claim a cut of the sales however as they'd already be doing it.

Pubs shouldn't have the right to claim a cut because they don't exactly print another copy for second hand exchange. The dev's IP doesn't become all scratched with markings and can be enjoyed equally amongst the first and second hand which is why I think devs deserve something from second hand sales. There's probs a flaw there somewhere lol

 

[Zefan]

Pubs shouldn't have the right to claim a cut because they don't exactly print another copy for second hand exchange. The dev's IP doesn't become all scratched with markings and can be enjoyed equally amongst the first and second hand which is why I think devs deserve something from second hand sales. There's probs a flaw there somewhere lol

Yeah true, from what I understand the money goes to the publishers who then take a cut and pass it on to the developers. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but that's what I meant

 

[Spyhop]

I understand that the possibility of selling on after use gives added value to buying new games, however what I'm talking about is the act of buying second hand. The decision one comes to as whether to buy second hand or pirate a game ultimately won't benefit the developer directly in anyway way.

That decision does matter, because you are creating demand and participating in the market for second hand games. It's the bottom line of the entire eco-system that matters. Not the specifics of retail transactions.

The affect the added value of re-saleability of new games has on the number of sales is also not a figure we can pin down, so it's not necessarily significant.

But you acknowledge that it does exist? So buying second hand games is not identical to piracy.

 

[Things change I've changed]

Stop taking my points out of context/putting words in my mouth - it was quite clear that I was referring to the effect it has on sales of new games - just read the preceeding sentence :\

why did you edit this line into the post, you gave a normal reply then put that in, was that really necessary ? and where have I put words in your mouth , anyway you said,

As for my original post, if you actually pay attention then it states that I understand that piracy is outside of the law...

now if we're being particular, it was the other way around, look,

I fully appreciate that it is against the law, however I don't place it anywhere worse than buying a game second hand.

You first state that you know it's against the law, then you say that you don't place it any worse than buying a game second hand, not the other way around, that is way I quoted you, perhaps you got it the wrong way around, it wasn't that I didn't pay enough attention to your original post, I think perhaps I took it too literal.

 

[Zefan]

But you acknowledge that it does exist? So buying second hand games is not identical to piracy.

I acknowledge that it exists - however it's affect is unknown therefore it's definitely not a significant enough factor to base an argument for the morality of buying second hand over piracy on.

why did you edit this line into the post, you gave a normal reply then put that in, was that really necessary ? and where have I put words in your mouth , anyway you said,

You put words in my mouth when you said I was tarring them with the same brush. I wasn't. Piracy is illegal and buying second hand is not. Clearly they are not identical in that respect. It is extremely clear that the point I'm making is centered around the morality of piracy and second hand trade, something quite separate from legality.

now if we're being particular, it was the other way around, look,

I am not trying to be particular, I just wish you'd read my posts properly and not take them out of context.

 

[manoz]

Yeah true, from what I understand the money goes to the publishers who then take a cut and pass it on to the developers. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but that's what I meant

If that's what happens to the money then the devs got no chance. Damn pubs!!!

 

[Spyhop]

I acknowledge that it exists - however it's affect is unknown therefore it's definitely not a significant enough factor to base an argument for the morality of buying second hand over piracy on.

Hehe. So how can you reject the significance of that which we don't have data for while insisting that the net effect is identical without anything to back it up?