Benq FP241W (Now available from OcUK!!!!!)

Spyhop · 4 Oct 2006 at 13:58

Agreed. I'm sure the majority of people considering spending big bucks on a screen like this care about perfect picture quality, and as soon as stuff starts getting stretched out of ratio and generally messed about with, no matter if it still looks pretty good, we don't have that perfect quality.

I don't think it makes the screen useless by any means, but it is very strange and disappointing..

Dr.EM · 4 Oct 2006 at 14:22

Is this really a problem? On our TV we have options to format depending on the source (wide, 4:3, zoom etc), so surely this can do all that just the same? With a 1080 source, there would just be appropriate sized bars top and bottom to preserve the aspect ratio? Something at 720 may get streched to fill the screen, but that is pretty standard isn't it?

ubern00b · 4 Oct 2006 at 14:24

Sorry, my sentiments were not in regards to the screen itself. From a standard PC output the screen will be lovely etc etc. From the standpoint of the marketing Gurus saying its the first HDMI screen, it can handle 1080p output etc is the part im saying is useless. For a screen that can handle native 1080p sources and via HDMI, its actually very cheap compared to some TV's out there, and there arent that many. The point though is that the HDMI input is not benificial to anyone, except if output from a PC, and then you may as well use DVI. I was very interested in this as to output from a x360/ps3/hd-dvd player in true 1080p a perfect picture would have been the puppys privates. This sadly doesnt look to be the case as the picture will be stretched. Ho hum...

Spyhop · 4 Oct 2006 at 14:43

Dr.EM said:
Is this really a problem? On our TV we have options to format depending on the source (wide, 4:3, zoom etc), so surely this can do all that just the same?

That's the thing.. it can't.

Dr.EM said:
With a 1080 source, there would just be appropriate sized bars top and bottom to preserve the aspect ratio?

Nope.. it would get stretched vertically to fill the space where the black bars should be.

Dr.EM said:
Something at 720 may get streched to fill the screen, but that is pretty standard isn't it?

Yup, that's what you'd expect, but to be distorted in to this stupid 16:10 aspect ratio in addition to scaling up isn't standard or good practice.

igors · 4 Oct 2006 at 15:09

wush said:
Even 1080p stuff would get stretched vertically. 1080p is 1920x1080 (16:9) but the screen is physically 1920x1200 (16:10). There's no way 16:9 sources (everything but PC, basically) can keep their aspect ratio intact when filling out the whole screen. The Benq rep that visted OCUK (I think) mentioned earlier in the thread was clearing talking rubbish.

I think what Gibbo tried is to play the movie from the PC and via software media player. In that case, monitor will simply fill the number of pixels required from the video stream (without the interpolation) and you will have naturally black borders around, but ... that's not enough.

Real & proper test is to attach 1080p capable HD "hardware" digital media player (with HDMI/DVI out), like KISS DP-600, to FP241W HDMI port and see what's going on when you switch player to 480i/p 720p 1080i 1080p and try to play the content from that range too (although 1080p sources are still quite rare, apart from demos). If you can't control pixel scaling or if monitor scaler/deinterlacer chipset is cheap (low quality), I guess that result will not be so pleasant and it will defy "practical" purpose of that HDMI port. Another question is, of course, how DVI is reacting to the same tests. Sadly, TR "review" didn't cover such tests, apart from the fact that this monitor is advertised also as HDTV (although I think that 24" is simply "small" for proper HDTV or any other critical viewing).

wush said:
This monitor really should have the options to
1. stretch to full size of the panel
2. stretch as much as possible whilst keeping the aspect ratio intact (good for sources less than 1080p. e.g. 720p, 4:3 stuff)
3. not to stretch at all. (good for pixel perfect 1080p goodness, pixel perfect low-res stuff that you don't mind having big borders with)

Exactly. Even much cheaper 20" panels have support for all 3 modes and imho that should be the norm for the multimedia monitors of this type and with this price tag ... unless they decided to cut the corners here and there because of the price. Usually, implementation of high quality pixel scaler and deinterlacer chipset in the monitor itself is resulting in inevitable price increase. Same situation as with the LCD TV sets, unless you have separate video processors. Such enormously expensive video processors (if money is no object) can import and transport or possibly improve, translate, upscale virtually any video connection (multiple video sources) to single HDMI or DVI HD norm and wih the benefit of AV switching too. Something like NEC TheaterSync or similar devices.

igors · 4 Oct 2006 at 15:35

ubern00b said:
The point though is that the HDMI input is not benificial to anyone, except if output from a PC, and then you may as well use DVI. I was very interested in this as to output from a x360/ps3/hd-dvd player in true 1080p a perfect picture would have been the puppys privates.

For strictly PC usage, HDMI is not beneficial at all, as DVI is good enough. I seriously doubt that you will see the "proper" 1080p content any time soon and I have a really hard time to believe that you will see many ps3/xbox 360 games that actually *render* in 1080p. I guess that they will probably render natively in 720p and upscale to (unlikely) 1080p or even worst case 1080i. edit: 1080p via component is simply no go and in that case one HDMI port is not enough and If you plan to combine multiple HD video sources, you need either more HDMI ports or input/ouput video receivers. If someone is keen to have perfect display who will excel as PC monitor, HDTV, gaming console, HD movies display ... I would just say good luck!

Also, I have my theory that 1080p video streams are really not that superior (compared to 720p 60fps) when we consider the eye's resolution limit, watching distance and screen size as input variables :-)

and few other factors. More importantly, it would be hard to justify the overblown price premium for 1080p devices, especially because existence of 1080p processor doesn't necessarily translate into 1080p capable HDTV

It's probably off topic, so I will not bother you with this ... but if someone is interested I can write few more words

ubern00b · 4 Oct 2006 at 18:18

igors said:
For strictly PC usage, HDMI is not beneficial at all, as DVI is good enough. I seriously doubt that you will see the "proper" 1080p content any time soon and I have a really hard time to believe that you will see many ps3/xbox 360 games that actually *render* in 1080p. I guess that they will probably render natively in 720p and upscale to (unlikely) 1080p or even worst case 1080i. edit: 1080p via component is simply no go and in that case one HDMI port is not enough and If you plan to combine multiple HD video sources, you need either more HDMI ports or input/ouput video receivers. If someone is keen to have perfect display who will excel as PC monitor, HDTV, gaming console, HD movies display ... I would just say good luck!

Also, I have my theory that 1080p video streams are really not that superior (compared to 720p 60fps) when we consider the eye's resolution limit, watching distance and screen size as input variables and few other factors. More importantly, it would be hard to justify the overblown price premium for 1080p devices, especially because existence of 1080p processor doesn't necessarily translate into 1080p capable HDTV It's probably off topic, so I will not bother you with this ... but if someone is interested I can write few more words

HDMI output from pc is beneficial from the point of view that HDMI can carry a private flag bit, necessary for the future (and spending this much money on a monitor for me, means its going to last me quite a few years). In terms of the x360 or whatever, 720p/1080i/1080p output would be upscaled and since the source is widescreen there isnt much of a problem there. The problem tho is that this screen is 16:10 and not 16:9 so it will be stretched horizontally. Regardless of the 720p/1080i/p resolutions or quality, the image will be "warped" regardless. This is what I understand anyway, and this is what makes me :mad:

Dr.EM · 4 Oct 2006 at 19:09

Well, i'm suprised it doesn't offer picture formatting to display 16:9 HD-DVDs with the correct aspect ratio. That is a problem if thats the case, everyone on films will look too tall etc.

kumar101 · 4 Oct 2006 at 20:09

igors said:
For strictly PC usage, HDMI is not beneficial at all, as DVI is good enough. I seriously doubt that you will see the "proper" 1080p content any time soon and I have a really hard time to believe that you will see many ps3/xbox 360 games that actually *render* in 1080p.

Comment from Lair developer:

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p5.html

First of all, we are not only rendering some part of Lair in 1080p. The whole game is in 1080p native, from front-end to all in-game bits.

We absolutely love 1080p because of the detail that you can see. When we went up from 720 to 1080 I was blown away how much more of the artwork was visible. We started out being true 720p proponents, but since switching over to true 1080p via HDMI a few months ago I can't go back.

Also, internal PC Bluray and HD-DVD Drives will become affordable within a year. So I would say anyone whos in looking to buy a new 24" Disp should be seriously considering having 1080p capability.

ubern00b · 4 Oct 2006 at 20:14

kumar101 said:
Also, internal PC Bluray and HD-DVD Drives will become affordable within a year. So I would say anyone whos in looking to buy a new 24" Disp should be seriously considering having 1080p capability.

Output from a PC is a non-issue as it will be 100% as intended, Its output from other peripherals that is in question.

kumar101 · 4 Oct 2006 at 20:22

ubern00b said:
Output from a PC is a non-issue as it will be 100% as intended, Its output from other peripherals that is in question.

Yup you are right just come from Pub not thinking straight!

Combat squirrel · 4 Oct 2006 at 20:55

So long story short:

GIBBO will this monitor do what we want or not ? IF not im not buying, I dont want images stretched & distorted

Humate · 4 Oct 2006 at 21:03

Combat squirrel said:
So long story short:

GIBBO will this monitor do what we want or not ? IF not im not buying, I dont want images stretched & distorted

i think u actually need badass to sort that one out for you

Spyhop · 4 Oct 2006 at 21:08

Don't we already know that it does not do what we want? When you're using it with a PC then the issues can be sometimes be accounted for in software, otherwise you're screwed.

Humate · 4 Oct 2006 at 21:14

wush said:
Don't we already know that it does not do what we want? When you're using it with a PC then the issues can be sometimes be accounted for in software, otherwise you're screwed.

So basically you are all like me... and want it all. Unfortunately the perfect 24" doesnt seem to be on the horizon, so i suppose that leaves u with the choice of buying an inferior product to tide you over. Thats why i bought a vauxhall astra, the bugatti veyron hadnt yet been produced, but then i found that my astra does me fine.

Reality|Bites · 4 Oct 2006 at 21:43

Would you pay the same price for the Astra as you would the Bugatti?

This is a very expensive monitor, You should expect these features to come as standard.

ubern00b · 4 Oct 2006 at 22:12

Its a toss up between the 2407 and this. I honestly dont know which to go for now as they both have weaknesses, cant honestly tell which has more going for it tho. ho hum...

Humate · 4 Oct 2006 at 22:15

Reality|Bites said:
Would you pay the same price for the Astra as you would the Bugatti?

This is a very expensive monitor, You should expect these features to come as standard.

that wasnt my point... there is no perfect 24" monitor atm. So yes i too expect these features to come as standard, just like i would expect a monitor worth 550-600 quid to have no colour banding... but unfortunately we havent been blessed with such a monitor. I just wish i had of bought my mates 2405 6months ago.

Dr.EM · 4 Oct 2006 at 22:31

How do we know it can't picture format to keep the aspect ratio btw? It would be under the monitors menu system wouldn't it, it does PIP so i'm suprised that it won't format as well :confused:

jimmyjimmyo · 4 Oct 2006 at 22:41

I really wanted one of these and was just about to order this plus a nice new rig to go with it (insurance payout

) but now I think I might leave it and just get another hdtv to use as a low res monitor.

I think if you are asking for £650 the least you can do is not tamper with an external source and it's aspect ratio or offer 1.1 pixel mapping even my 32" dell hdtv does that (my old 26" dell did it as well).

So the only option we have at the moment is either the dell 2407 (banding) the benQ (no 1.1 pixel mapping) or the samsung (which is just the same as the dell?) anything else (eizo etc.) and the money gets silly and heads towards the cheaper 37" 1920x1080 hdtv prices (AMOI, Westinghouse etc.)