Blame on both sides

[VincentHanna]

Three leaders of BLM are currently being sued by a Baton Rouge officer for inciting hatred that caused the deaths and injuries by shootings at Dallas and Baton Rouge. Granted, that whole issue is about hatred towards the police force in particular but if successful in prosecution, do you think your viewpoint will change?

That just shows how stupid and broken the US courts system is if you ask me.

And their obsession with suing for everything.

 

[RoboCod]

That just shows how stupid and broken the US courts system is if you ask me.

And their obsession with suing for everything.

So, you work in the police force. You're working where an activist group is protesting and chanting "burn the bacon, kill the pigs, etc". The protest's get a out of hand and you are shot by a sniper and affected for life. You tell me you don't seek judicial process against the culprits? Who's stupid?

 

[Freakbro]

Fundamentally yes. Because it is censorship and therefore diametrically opposed to the entire idea of 'free' speech.

Its free speech unless we decide we dont like what you are saying, then we will lock you up. Its the same thought process as you find in dictatorships.

Are we so insecure in our motal and social superiority that we have to lock people up for misguided beliefs?

Which is all well and good in an intellectual vaccuum, unfortunately that is a state we don't exist in. We live in a civilised society that sets laws and boundries to what you can say and how you can act, and that is not equivalent to being in a dictatorship.

The freedoms we want also come with responsibilities we must take on, and it's not about being insecure about our moral superiority at all, it's recognising that society can have a moral superiority over an individual and if they act contrary to that, then yes, we can lock them up.

Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction

The version of Article 19 in the ICCPR later amends this by stating that the exercise of these rights carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "[f]or respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "[f]or the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".[5] Therefore, freedom of speech and expression may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.

The same foaming at the mouth bottom feeders on here supporting the Nazis in their absolute right to free speech are the same ones who were calling for Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudry to be locked up (or killed) for their beliefs and speeches. Which says more about them than their supposed beliefs in protection of absolute free speech.

I believe you dont effectively challenge ideas through censorship but through debate.

Which is fine because you are intelligent and intellectual enough to have a reasoned debate and form and change your opinions, not everyone is like that.

 

[SquirrelMadness]

Trump is the ultimate pandering politician.

He has pandered down to everyone since becoming President - he even pandered to Hillary.

It's no surprise that he pandered on this subject too - and accused both sides of violence.

But this time, after watching vidoes of the event... he's actually right.

It's very important to address both sides in a situation like this as if you target only one you empower the other to commit more violence - you make them feel like the good guys. This is the same group that protests against free speech.

You also make the side that you target feel like their free-speech and right to protest are being attacked - which makes moderates on the center of politics who are 100% pro-free speech sympathise with them. Now you have two groups co-operating and thus a bigger threat.

It's unbelievable that this started over a statue. Arguably if the opposing factions didn't turn up there would be no violence. But since this was an internet-planned event it allowed opposition to see it organise a counter-protest.

There were violent people on both sides, and peaceful people on both sides and with video evidence that can't be argued against.

 

[VincentHanna]

So, you work in the police force. You're working where an activist group is protesting and chanting "burn the bacon, kill the pigs, etc". The protest's get a out of hand and you are shot by a sniper and affected for life. You tell me you don't seek judicial process against the culprits? Who's stupid?

And the "culprit" you believe in this case isn't the sniper who shot the officer?

I know nothing about this particular incident so I don't know what the 4 leaders he was suing actually said on the day...assuming they were all even there?

 

[CosmicClown]

Is it really 2 wrongs though?

Is it really true, that the liberal left are as bad as neo nazis and the actual real KKK? I mean, I'm struggling to see them both being equally bad, and thus carrying equal amounts of blame,

Mate, watch some youtube videos of people who were actually THERE. Antifa were the ones inciting violence and hatred.

You really think you have the right to be violent because you don't agree with anothers ideology? You MORON. You don't like another's ideas and views so you attack them. That makes you a FASCIST. Textbook definition.

From what I've witnessed via unbiased sources who were ON the ground where these protests occurred it was Antifa getting violent because they didn't want 'The right' expressing their ideas.

The mainstream media has completely inverted whats happening out there which is why Trump has CLEARLY said, he needs ALL the information before he makes a judgment. Which is a balanced unbiased approach which is respectable. HE condemned ANY violence which occurred from either side. And now he is subject to criticism for that?

The worlds gone freaking mad.

The liberals are the real Nazis.

 

[VincentHanna]

Have you got links to these "Unbiased sources"?

I've pointed it out many times that the right wing rally-goers were the ones who purposefully and antagonistically deviated from the route agreed with police and headed straight for the counter protestors.

 

[CosmicClown]

Have you got links to these "Unbiased sources"?

I've pointed it out many times that the right wing rally-goers were the ones who purposefully and antagonistically deviated from the route agreed with police and headed straight for the counter protestors.

Yeah I'll spam you loads of em when I get home from work. Cant access youtube here.

 

[RoboCod]

And the "culprit" you believe in this case isn't the sniper who shot the officer?

I know nothing about this particular incident so I don't know what the 4 leaders he was suing actually said on the day...assuming they were all even there?

Well given the generalised viewpoints I'm seeing in here about the far right, yes the culprit is not just the sniper but the whole group. You can't apply one logic one way and then not the other way, unless of course you have a strong bias, which evidently you do. Playing devils advocate but since we're generalising an entire group on the actions of some morons you watched on a little YouTube "documentary", it would be just to do the same in all situations no? The guy who drove the car into the crowd, his actions were because the far right.... Right? Why else would he do that?

The rhetoric in this thread is that all white supremacist groups want all non white people dead and then comparing those groups to supposed peace loving and honourable far left. For a start, that comparison is disengenuous. Like apples and pears, to be relevant we'd have to compare the KKK and Black Panthers. Further still, posters here like to conflate the agenda of white supremacist hate groups with the beliefs of entire far right. That tactic is about as playground as it was labelling "all UKIP voters are racist pigs".

No, the far right don't want all blacks dead and I'd even go as far as to say all white supremacy groups don't either.

 

[Sankari]

Antifa were the ones inciting violence and hatred.

Can you give me some verified figures on the number of Antifa members present at the riot? Because I keep asking people and nobody can tell me. I have not seen even one verified photo or video of an Antifa member in Charlottesville on that day. I'm sure that some were present, but there's been no indication that they were the problem. Will you be the first to provide the evidence?

You really think you have the right to be violent because you don't agree with anothers ideology? You MORON. You don't like another's ideas and views so you attack them. That makes you a FASCIST. Textbook definition.

Great, please tell that to the white supremacists.

From what I've witnessed via unbiased sources who were ON the ground where these protests occurred it was Antifa getting violent because they didn't want 'The right' expressing their ideas.

Again, evidence please.

The liberals are the real Nazis.

I didn't see any liberals waving Nazi flags, chanting Nazi slogans, or making Nazi salutes. But you think the people who did do these things, aren't the real Nazis?

 

[VincentHanna]

Well given the generalised viewpoints I'm seeing in here about the far right, yes the culprit is not just the sniper but the whole group. You can't apply one logic one way and then not the other way, unless of course you have a strong bias, which evidently you do.

I googled the Baton Rouge shooting and there was no reports that even linked it with any BLM protest that was happening at the time

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/baton-rouge-gunman-gavin-long.html

Over the course of just a few chaotic minutes on Sunday morning, Gavin Long, acting alone and apparently calling on his military training, ran from building to building, turning a busy commercial street in Baton Rouge into a battleground stretching some 400 yards. In a scene that officials described in detail for the first time at a news conference on Monday, after piecing it together from multiple video recordings and witness accounts, Mr. Long, 29, killed three law enforcement officers and wounded several others before a police sniper fatally shot him.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ltiple-officers-shot-in-baton-rogue-louisiana

The Attack
Col. Michael Edmonson, the superintendent of the Louisiana State Police, provided this timeline of how the attack unfolded:

• Approximately 8:40 a.m.: "Baton Rouge P.D. officers at the convenience store observed the individual. He was wearing all black and standing behind a beauty supply store holding a rifle."
• Approximately 8:42 a.m.: "Reports received of shots fired."
• Approximately 8:44 a.m.: "Reports received of officers down on the scene."
• 8:45 a.m.: "Reports received of more shots being fired."
• 8:46 a.m.: "Reports received of the suspect, again wearing all black, standing near a car wash located right next to the convenience store."
• 8:48 a.m.: "Our [Emergency Medical Services] units started arriving at the scene, they were staging. They started approaching and getting the bodies that were at the scene to render first aid. Officers engaged the subject at that particular time, and he ultimately died at the scene. That was officers responding to the scene itself. State police and multiple agencies responded to the scene and attempted to secure the area, and identify possible potential suspects and further threats in the area."

Playing devils advocate but since we're generalising an entire group on the actions of some morons you watched on a little YouTube "documentary", it would be just to do the same in all situations no? The guy who drove the car into the crowd, his actions were because the far right.... Right? Why else would he do that?

The only "YouTube documentary" I watched was the one were the reporter went with the white supremacist people! And only because someone posted it here. I don't get my news from there. I even said in this thread that there's too much bias on Youtube from both sides!

The rhetoric in this thread is that all white supremacist groups want all non white people dead and then comparing those groups to supposed peace loving and honourable far left. For a start, that comparison is disengenuous. Like apples and pears, to be relevant we'd have to compare the KKK and Black Panthers. Further still, posters here like to conflate the agenda of white supremacist hate groups with the beliefs of entire far right. That tactic is about as playground as it was labelling "all UKIP voters are racist pigs".

Why would I compare a group that is still active and involved in the Charlottesville protest, to a group that disbanded in the early 1980's?

No, the far right don't want all blacks dead and I'd even go as far as to say all white supremacy groups don't either.

Just enslaved then?

 

[TJM]

I didn't know we had so many free speech absolutists on these forums and I'm looking forward to their comments on the next thread about an Islamic fundamentalist preacher who can't be deported for whatever reason.

No, the far right don't want all blacks dead and I'd even go as far as to say all white supremacy groups don't either.

I suppose some of them just long for the Jim Crow days. Lovely.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I suppose some of them just long for the Jim Crow days. Lovely.

Some black political groups are advocating an effective return to Jim Crow with separate spaces for black students and so forth. Maybe some of OCUK's members are just so anti-racist they support racist black politics?

 

[CosmicClown]

Can you give me some verified figures on the number of Antifa members present at the riot? Because I keep asking people and nobody can tell me. I have not seen even one verified photo or video of an Antifa member in Charlottesville on that day. I'm sure that some were present, but there's been no indication that they were the problem. Will you be the first to provide the evidence?



Great, please tell that to the white supremacists.



Again, evidence please.



I didn't see any liberals waving Nazi flags, chanting Nazi slogans, or making Nazi salutes. But you think the people who did do these things, aren't the real Nazis?

Nazi
ˈnɑːtsi/
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis

1. 1.
   historical
   a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Now you go ask these liberals If they believe socialism works. 95% will agree they want to see the west adopt socialism

 

[VincentHanna]

Nazi
ˈnɑːtsi/
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis

1. 1.
   historical
   a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Now you go ask these liberals If they believe socialism works. 95% will agree they want to see a socialist society.

You are an idiot if you think National Socialism practiced by Nazis is the same socialism that someone like Bernie Saunders believes in

 

[Freakbro]

Ohh, ouch, calling someone ignorant and then thinking the Nazi party were socialists because they have socialist in their name.......

 

[Felon]

You really think you have the right to be violent because you don't agree with anothers ideology? You MORON. You don't like another's ideas and views so you attack them. That makes you a FASCIST. Textbook definition.

The liberals are the real Nazis.

I'm at an airport right now so can't really respond properly, but to be honest I was asking a question, hence the question mark, calm down.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Three leaders of BLM are currently being sued by a Baton Rouge officer for inciting hatred that caused the deaths and injuries by shootings at Dallas and Baton Rouge. Granted, that whole issue is about hatred towards the police force in particular but if successful in prosecution, do you think your viewpoint will change?

Three leaders of or the leaders of? If they are the totality of the leadership then that's a very different problem to them being a small part while the rest face palms at their actions. I'd say it depends on how the rest of the leadership and the movement sees their actions.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Nazi
ˈnɑːtsi/
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis

1. 1.
   historical
   a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Now you go ask these liberals If they believe socialism works. 95% will agree they want to see the west adopt socialism

See also: the democratic people's republic of North Korea, the democratic republic of Congo, the people's republic of china, etc.

 

[VincentHanna]

See also: the democratic people's republic of North Korea, the democratic republic of Congo, the people's republic of china, etc.

Wait a minute...are you saying those aren't democracies like the UK and USA?

How can that be? It clearly says democratic in the countries name.

Don't give me your fake news BS Vonhelmet.