BMW and M Power Owners
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Would I be nuts for considering a high mileage (100k-125k) 10 year old year 650i?
Are they reliable?
I do about 13k miles a year and my last car was a ST220 where I averaged about 26mpg. Am I likely to see a considerable rise in fuel costs with the 650i?
I've never owned a BMW before and don't know much about them in general.
Are they reliable?
I do about 13k miles a year and my last car was a ST220 where I averaged about 26mpg. Am I likely to see a considerable rise in fuel costs with the 650i?
I've never owned a BMW before and don't know much about them in general.
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Perhaps a little bit... 650i running costs could be quite a bit above something like a Mondeo...
For fuel economy, you will be lucky to average 20mpg... perhaps 25mpg on a gentle motorway cruise. Heavy foot and that will happily drop to 15mpg or less.
Reliability, well... that depends on the example you get. Get a good one and it'll keep going for another 100k miles or more without needing much more than a service... get a bad one and you'll be in for some hefty bills.
At that mileage and age, expect the suspension to need overhauling and some other intermediary work.
If you can find one where that type of work has been relatively recently completed - then it might be worth going for.
If you're looking at one where nothing has been done for the last 3-4 years... then avoid it and look for another.
Get a good one though, and you'll love it - especially a nice upgrade from a Mondeo - nicely well-rounded cars
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Zero excess is not available on new policies, only renewals.
To make it even stranger, its not as if I didn't claim on it last year, it broke down and required a new throttle computer (im not even sure that is a real thing) and it cost me £0, I got to try out a 15 plate 520D for 3 days including on a 120 mile trip so it actually saved me money.
5 series wasn't genuinely sporty.
5 series wasn't genuinely sporty.
Thanks for that info.Perhaps a little bit... 650i running costs could be quite a bit above something like a Mondeo...
For fuel economy, you will be lucky to average 20mpg... perhaps 25mpg on a gentle motorway cruise. Heavy foot and that will happily drop to 15mpg or less.
Reliability, well... that depends on the example you get. Get a good one and it'll keep going for another 100k miles or more without needing much more than a service... get a bad one and you'll be in for some hefty bills.
At that mileage and age, expect the suspension to need overhauling and some other intermediary work.
If you can find one where that type of work has been relatively recently completed - then it might be worth going for.
If you're looking at one where nothing has been done for the last 3-4 years... then avoid it and look for another.
Get a good one though, and you'll love it - especially a nice upgrade from a Mondeo - nicely well-rounded cars
Economy wise the ST220 is officially rated as 27mpg average but I only used to get 21mpg from my old commute. However that changed to 26mpg on my new commute as it's mostly 50mph A-road now with hardly any traffic so I'm kinda hoping I'll get near the official figure for the 650i.
How much does the suspension cost to sort out? I'll have funds set aside for issues but obviously would like to avoid immediate/short term expensive repairs.
Are the engines and gear boxes generally reliable? Any common issues on these cars?
The engines and gearbox on the 650i are very solid, they are decent reliable cars and can be remapped to close to 400hp if you desire which is attractive to me. You can also retrofit the much more modern CIC navigation system into them. This also makes them a very attractive proposition even on the tech front, which is unusual at this price point for the type of car. (My SL is utterly ancient by comparison, and worth just as much money - i am looking to perhaps make this swap for other reasons but this is also a factor).
Economy i dont think you'll find them a whole lot worse than your ST220 - that old Ford V6 is an absolutely woeful engine when it comes to that - it seems to suck fuel at the rate engines twice its size do.
Economy i dont think you'll find them a whole lot worse than your ST220 - that old Ford V6 is an absolutely woeful engine when it comes to that - it seems to suck fuel at the rate engines twice its size do.
From the ST220 thread it seemed your fuel economy was the exception to the norm Howard judging by what everyone else was averaging. It depends where you drive as much as how you drive it I guess as a change of job increased my fuel economy by over 20%.
I didn't know CCC on the 650i could be upgraded to CIC. That's useful to know and something I'd be interested in doing depending on cost. After a quick google it does look somewhat more involved and expensive than a typical HU replacement job though.
Compared to my ST220 I already know the 650i would cost £215/more to tax each year and on the assumption I can average 23mpg from the 650i, it would cost me an extra £323 in fuel. It would cost more in tyres and servicing also so would it be safe to say I need at least an extra £1k a year to run it? On top of all that's been mentioned, how much should I be setting aside for repairs?
I didn't know CCC on the 650i could be upgraded to CIC. That's useful to know and something I'd be interested in doing depending on cost. After a quick google it does look somewhat more involved and expensive than a typical HU replacement job though.
Compared to my ST220 I already know the 650i would cost £215/more to tax each year and on the assumption I can average 23mpg from the 650i, it would cost me an extra £323 in fuel. It would cost more in tyres and servicing also so would it be safe to say I need at least an extra £1k a year to run it? On top of all that's been mentioned, how much should I be setting aside for repairs?
They remap to around 390hp, so a decent little boost from the 360-365ish standard. Possibly worth considering, i think i would get it done.
Everyone seems to quote their economy (including Imy) at much lower figures than that, his fuel economy sounds pretty woeful to me given its only a 220hp engine.....of course driving styles massively affect this.
Indeed.
Imy - in terms of additional costs you have the fixed ones, but to be honest ive never given things like that much thought.
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If I had the dosh I'd get a 650i, and If I had the patience I'd get a manual, I'm part of the small crowd that actually likes the looks of the E63/4.
Easily get mid 30s mpg out of my 3.0 Z4, but I think that's all down to the car not really weighing that much.
Easily get mid 30s mpg out of my 3.0 Z4, but I think that's all down to the car not really weighing that much.
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Don't be fooled by mapping costs. Ask if it's a 1 to 1 mapping. If it isn't, it's simply uploading a pre defined map they have used on other engines like yours. And most are the same no matter where you go.
If 1 to 1, you'll pay through your nose, but if you get a copy and paste job. It's not that expensive and will be worth it.
If 1 to 1, you'll pay through your nose, but if you get a copy and paste job. It's not that expensive and will be worth it.
Well maybe me sitting at a steady 70mph on the motorway is the exception to the norm..
I saw low 20s around town and 35+ on a run, but then I don't usually drive like my hair's on fire. I'm not the only one who saw these sort of figures either. Don't forget that seemingly no-one knew about the correct tyre pressures to use until I told them in the ST220 thread
It does indeed depend on driving style - if you're always accelerating hard around town and mashing your foot to overtake on the motorway then the average will be lower. I tend to drive in a more observant, fluid fashion.
My long term average was 26.4mpg in my old ST220 and that was primarily due to my commute which was 2 miles of town driving, then 2 miles of M25 (say no more), then 7 miles of M3, then 2-3 more miles of town driving in fairly heavy stop-start traffic. So 26mpg on deserted 50MPH A-roads seems a bit low.
In other words, I find it hard to believe the economy from a 4.8L V8 in a heavier car won't be a good deal worse.
I'm impressed you can get so much more power from the 650i with a remap though.
You'd be surprised at just how "frugal" some of the large V8 engines can be in context when compared with smaller V6 engines.
Fuel consumption is certainly not linear, and generally the larger engined cars will have gearing which favours lower engine speeds. Its sometimes quite surprising how much fuel a V6 will use, a much more powerful and larger V8 often wont actually use much more.
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Be quite a good package mind, 650i's are down in price, few hundred extra and you've got a comfortable 400bhp monster, yes please.
Do we know what the 645i is capable of in terms of a remap? they're silly cheap to buy.
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You'd be surprised at just how "frugal" some of the large V8 engines can be in context when compared with smaller V6 engines.
Fuel consumption is certainly not linear, and generally the larger engined cars will have gearing which favours lower engine speeds. Its sometimes quite surprising how much fuel a V6 will use, a much more powerful and larger V8 often wont actually use much more.
This is basically just rubbish man maths used to justify V8 power. Which is fine but don't expect it to actually be true