Every time I start negotiating with a dealer on a decent used BMW they start trying to tie me up with a PCP plan. I've never had one before, so what exactly are the advantages of them compared to just stumping up the cash? If I were to go down that route wouldn't I be better off buying new from a web based dealer?
BMW and M Power Owners
- Thread starter panthro
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[TW]Fox;29301400 said:
Not sure I understand the logic here? Why switch from 120d to 118/120i?
As the talk has been running around the warranty cost on the 1 series is pretty reasonable, I assume the car will have warranty the whole time.
If the M135i isn't really suitable, then why would a smaller petrol engine be any more so? From what I can gather, the M135i is apparently reasonably frugal "on a run". There surely isn't going to be huge differences in mpg dropping to a 120i?
As the car will be under warranty anyway, then surely a 120d would be a fairly safe bet? And get 50+ mpg, which no petrol engined example will. And no doubt retain more of its value over the term?
If it was me, and my money, I'd be looking at either the M135i if wanting petrol, or 120d if not. If you are sacrificing fuel economy, then sacrifice it for a decent engine. Otherwise, stick to the drive for fuel economy, and get the diesel.
The 120i just seems to me like too much of a compromise on all fronts.
I'm not saying they will be overly "bad". I can't imagine they will be as good as the diesels though. And if the M135i is as good as many on here claim it to be on fuel, I can't see how the smaller petrols will be significantly better.
I've certainly never experienced any 2L petrol engines that are surprisingly economical.
I've certainly never experienced any 2L petrol engines that are surprisingly economical.
Remember the 118 is a 1.6t now, only the 125i has a 2 litre in the newer generation.
I tend to agree that it's fairly rare to see a significant improvement with 2 litre petrols over larger straight 6 motors, i get pretty much the same mpg from the octavia as i did from the type R, which in turn near enough matched the 330i.
I'd still say there is no doubt even the top end diesel would be more economical, but I would expect a decent mpg return from the smaller petrol too.
I tend to agree that it's fairly rare to see a significant improvement with 2 litre petrols over larger straight 6 motors, i get pretty much the same mpg from the octavia as i did from the type R, which in turn near enough matched the 330i.
I'd still say there is no doubt even the top end diesel would be more economical, but I would expect a decent mpg return from the smaller petrol too.
might be worth inspecting front discs, big bill if they need done [>£700] they were trying to advise me to change mine at 3 years [MOT] due to some minor rust on in inside face
nice spec btw, miss mine a lot
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I can't say I'm surprised that you don't get it.
The appeal of something like a 118i is that it's not as expensive to buy as an M135i, but it's not as horribly tedious as a 120d. It's smoother, quieter, more refined and generally a more pleasant engine. It's also fairly potent as well, they are surprisingly quick. The only real downside over a 120d is that it isn't as efficient but they are still surprisingly frugal engines - SDK used to claim a billion mpg out of his or something.
BMW have nailed the 20d application in the LCI 5 Series. It's very quiet and it's finally not a constant irritation but in the rest of the range, not so much. I had a '65 plate 420d recently and it was as loud, clattery and unrefined as it ever as. It's going to be even worse in a 1 Series.
Only the OP can decide whether he gives a stuff about that, but the 118i offers an interesting middle ground between M135i and 120d.
Didn't know the engine sizes had changed. Probably because I have no interest personally in a 18/20i. 1.5t in the 118i and 1.6t in the 120i that I can see (that are within the £20k budget). Yeah, the probably are more economic than the M135i then.
Still not as economic as the 120d though. Or as powerful. And for me at least, I have no worries about sacrificing fuel economy, but I would personally only do it for power. Not for a slightly smoother ride, or less noises from under the hood, that I'm unlikely to notice at 70+ on the motorway.
The guy is doing 15k per year, for work. My money would either go on the more frugal engine and save the money, or the faster, more fun engine, and pay for the privilege. It's probably just my view on commuting that suggests I see no point in the middle ground compromise.
[TW]Fox;29302201 said:
Thanks Fox.
I think the next logical step to is test both the 118i and M135i, and see which ticks the most boxes.
I know this will be impossible to gauge as it will differ per dealer, but what is the likelihood of being able to negotiate any decent amount off an AUC? For example, negotiating £1k off a car up for £20k? I'm presuming the higher the cost, the better the chance, as it's relative to the selling price.
I've heard about you personally having success in the thousands and then some dealers not even knocking a tenner off.
That's pretty much it. Some will deal, some won't. There is no trick to it. Just ask for it and see what happens. If you can find similar AUC cars for what you want to pay, you can try that route for negotiations.
Second year warranty should be easier though.
Second year warranty should be easier though.
15k per year is an average and includes personal miles too. My office commute is a 60 mile round trip, which I can cut down by working from home. It might include the odd 250 mile round trip to a different site, once a week. But certainly not 4 times a month. Even if I do the office commute 4 times a week for the entire year, it still comes in at less than 12k.
You basically summed up my decision. I either go down the frugal route and save money, or pay for performance. I was hoping something like a 120d would be the middle ground. Good MPG and performance over my current car, but it seems that isn't really the best option.
Try a 120d and see, it's not nearly as bad as some people make out. Pretty swift as well, and you'll always get around 50mpg. If you're going AUC, try and get one as well specified as you can, and possibly a mid 2014 model, as that has the newer steering wheel and better software that has bluetooth streaming.
But then, I'm not someone who has a big issue with diesels to start with, even 4 pot ones.
It depends on everything from how keenly priced it is in the first place, how much they've got in the deal, even down to the individual attitude of the sales managers. Some will do a great deal, others won't. Some won't initially but will when they've still got the car 2 months later.. I got 2 grand off a 335i, yet when I tried to buy one of 10 identical Mini's that were about £1k over what everyone else wanted the dealer in question wouldn't even move by a tenner.
I guess you either 'get it' or you don't. If you think its great then thats brilliant as you'll be happier with your car but personally I think they've been spoiling otherwise decent cars for years. They are just so gruff and noisy unless there is a whole truckload of sound deadening. All I can say is try both and decide for yourself.
Or try just the diesel, buy it, and then say how refined it is
If the refinement aspect doesn't bother you then they are great engines - the performance is reasonable, as is the fuel economy. Plus you'll always be spoilt for choice on the used market!
I honestly wish I liked them more as I don't really need the performance my 530d offers frankly and a 520d would have been much cheaper or newer for the same money.
This...
[TW]Fox;29302399 said:I guess you either 'get it' or you don't. If you think its great then thats brilliant as you'll be happier with your car but personally I think they've been spoiling otherwise decent cars for years. They are just so gruff and noisy unless there is a whole truckload of sound deadening. All I can say is try both and decide for yourself.
Or try just the diesel, buy it, and then say how refined it is
If the refinement aspect doesn't bother you then they are great engines - the performance is reasonable, as is the fuel economy. Plus you'll always be spoilt for choice on the used market!
I honestly wish I liked them more as I don't really need the performance my 530d offers frankly and a 520d would have been much cheaper or newer for the same money.
Don't get me wrong it's not super refined or anything, I totally understand that, but I guess we are all different in what we will allow refinement wise. Having been a hot hatch guy forever more then this thing largely is pretty nice. At some points in the rev range (obviously tickover) and approx 2k it's a bit "resonant" shall we say but nothing which really makes me hate it.
I think with these cars it's safe to suggest just give it a go and see what you think. I do prefer petrols especially in terms of the drive (a 125i would have been excellent!) but in all fairness I've done perhaps 1500 miles in the 4 weeks I've had mine and it's cost so little to fuel that I love it on that score.
I would love a nice run in a 6 cyl BMW diesel to see how good they are as they do sound very nice as far as diesels go.
I thought so much of it I sold it 3 months later 5 years ago 
It was an MY09 E92 335i. I bought it because I wanted to change my 530i but hated the E60, what I should have done and then eventually decided to was wait for the F10 to be affordable.
Fantastic and wonderful engine though.
It was an MY09 E92 335i. I bought it because I wanted to change my 530i but hated the E60, what I should have done and then eventually decided to was wait for the F10 to be affordable.
Fantastic and wonderful engine though.
Someone posted this on one of the Saab forums, thought you guys might enjoy it - an ad for an immaculate M3
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201601200250181
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201601200250181