Soldato
What definition are you using? None fit the world's borders.
BoE confirms what we knew already: migration driving down wages
- Thread starter scorza
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What definition are you using? None fit the world's borders.
Hardly surprising so many have come, was shocked to learn a Romulanian washing cars for 40 hours here earns double what a doctor gets in Romania. so six quid an hour is big money to them.
The job market is like any other flood it with applicants, this will enable business to pay as little as possible out in wages. another reason to GTFO of Europe now.
roll on the referendum
Far too simplistic an understanding, which is why it is often observed right wing voters often have lower intelligence!
There are far more factors involved such as minimum wage, company policies, increased demand, vertical movement, growth, company competition for labour pools, outsourcing, etc., amongst others.
Soldato
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This is ignorance of the highest order.
The problem is that Eastern Europeans come over here, work for minimum wage whilst living a marginal lifestyle and then go back home with the major of several months salary. That salary is often many orders higher than they'd make back home so they are happy with it. A British worker does not have this luxury.
As others have explained, the free movement of labour punishes unskilled labour in wealthy countries as they cannot make a living wage in their country of permanent residence.
If we didn't have free movement, labour competition would push wages up.
Pretty much all the definitions of arbitrary will fit with relation to how the lines on maps were decided.
War, conflict, taking land and so on on a whim of a government, or King is how the lines on maps have been formed, which is pretty much one of the definitions of arbitrary.
The way countries are divided up hasn't really been mutually agreed using reason and logic for the most part, and you know full well it hasn't.
Caporegime
Carney literally just said today that over the past 2 years the increase in labour force due to UK citizens exceeded that from migrants by 10 to 1 (because people are keen for more hours, and working into old age).
So without movement of people we'd still have 90% of the downward "pressures" on wages, unless UK citizens are substantially less willing to work for minimum wage. With 1.83 million people out of work I think that's very unlikely.
Soldato
Yeah, it's got nothing to do with them being willing to work for less than half your wages and none of your Employment Rights is it?
Yeah, it's got nothing to do with them being willing to work for less than half your wages and none of your Employment Rights is it?
Less than half? I assume we're talking about sub minimum then?
Yeah, it's got nothing to do with them being willing to work for less than half your wages and none of your Employment Rights is it?
Paying less than minimum wage is illegal
As is breaking employment rights
Suspended
There has been some momentum on wage rises now for about 18 months, I suspect its sitting above the people getting minimum wage but that's speculation. Its a hard barrier to break, move a job from minimum wage to paying above that, psychologically for companies.
There is no doubt the EU and the ability for labour to move to the UK will keep wages supressed as there is a ready supply of labour willing to work for the UK minimum wage. I bet there are literally millions who would be ready to hop on a plane/train to come to the UK to do a minimum wage job. The wages would look seriously high to a lot of them, they would probably be quite unaware of the cost of living here though hence why they tend to congregate together in largish houses with a room each.
I remember 15-20 years ago working with Aussies and New Zealanders, they came here as the comparative wages were higher, they did some Europe travel and earned more than comparative jobs down under. 3-4 years and they would mostly go home, with more in the bank than if they had stayed down under and having done quite thorough travel to Europe, saving shed loads than having to do a few long hauls later on. Even they tended to congregate in small groups to live, yes they certainly mixed far far better in daily life, going out etc but they did seem to find it easier to live together than go alone or move in with brit housemates.
There is no doubt the EU and the ability for labour to move to the UK will keep wages supressed as there is a ready supply of labour willing to work for the UK minimum wage. I bet there are literally millions who would be ready to hop on a plane/train to come to the UK to do a minimum wage job. The wages would look seriously high to a lot of them, they would probably be quite unaware of the cost of living here though hence why they tend to congregate together in largish houses with a room each.
I remember 15-20 years ago working with Aussies and New Zealanders, they came here as the comparative wages were higher, they did some Europe travel and earned more than comparative jobs down under. 3-4 years and they would mostly go home, with more in the bank than if they had stayed down under and having done quite thorough travel to Europe, saving shed loads than having to do a few long hauls later on. Even they tended to congregate in small groups to live, yes they certainly mixed far far better in daily life, going out etc but they did seem to find it easier to live together than go alone or move in with brit housemates.
Caporegime
Oh yeah cos people never commit crimes do they? People never employ illegal workers either do they?
And the solution to companies breaking the law is either:
A) put in place arbitrary restrictions on immigrants that will reduce Britian's GDP and reduce the amount of taxes available and wont prevent companies breaking the law.
OR
B) Increases resources to tackle illegal business practices that will help everyone.
???
Caporegime
If 10 random Poles can survive in 3 bed semi in London without a support structure or network of friends, why cant a British young person do the same? Genuine question?
Try and answer with valid reasons why not... Not just because they feel more entitled or "better" than that. How can ten minimum wage baristas and office cleaners manage it but poor Mr 18 year old Essex council trash not do it?
its purely down to mindset isn't it... It really is, no ? (and a very cushy benefit net)
Try and answer with valid reasons why not... Not just because they feel more entitled or "better" than that. How can ten minimum wage baristas and office cleaners manage it but poor Mr 18 year old Essex council trash not do it?
its purely down to mindset isn't it... It really is, no ? (and a very cushy benefit net)
Caporegime
How can that be fault of the immigrants its targeting the utter wrong end of the problem. its cart before the horse mentality.
Because it doesn't involve "SEND THEM BACK!!!!!!"
Intelligent rational solutions have no place in a good old OCUk racist rant dam it
Soldato
Herp a derp My Carney, check your migration figures again...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32739852
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32739852
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The whole point is people have been told to expect better.
Jeez even the definition of poverty often spouted in the UK is RELATIVE poverty.
The BBC are running a series called 24 hours in the past, its recreating working conditions from almost 200 years ago. (Its on iplayer), its very interesting to see the historical facts included, it shows just how very far we have come from those days. An interesting thing from this weeks, Anne Widicombe (spelling?) was told she was too old to work in the pottery, that's it, the main way to earn money from that 24hour period and she was excluded. Later that day she was allowed to help paint with the assumption women could all paint. The population was living day to day back then, sleeping whole families to a room, paying rent daily, clothes were passed from person to person to person. I am not saying that eastern Europe is in that state but they are still a damn sight closer in places than we are.
And going back to the very first post which I just reread its quite clear that the BOE are inferring that the free movement of labour is working efficiently because people are aware of or have already been given a job as they are using the internet to do so. Its not saying the UK people can't, but its a damn site more likely you will move country with a job, or confirmation that the jobs you would do exist than if you were literally moving with nothing to go to. The internet gives the visibility that would not have existed 20 years ago.
Good point. 294,000 vs 500,000 is far more comparable.
Associate
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/116...ng-for-jobs-online-keeping-UK-wages-down.html
Helpfully after the election - wouldn't want British people voting while having access to the facts would we?
There's no way we should vote to stay in the EU unless somehow Cameron manages to negotiate an opt-out for Britain on the free movement of people.
This whingeing article doesn't point out that the BoE also agrees that migrant workers may start on lower paid work, but don't tend to stay in these roles for very long. They are generally better performers and more upwardly mobile; soon taking on better paid and more economically productive roles.
I love them, let's have more. These types of people generally work hard, are aspirational, have a plan and raise good kids.
Our lot just want to do media studies at uni and get non-jobs as events planners.
I'm talking about low paid / minimum wage jobs here the only company policy in force at this end of the job market is keep the wage bill as low as possible.
having mass unskilled immigration helps to do this.