BoE confirms what we knew already: migration driving down wages

[Efour]

Because people never had to do that UNTIL mass immigration happened.

This is the argument that goes over people's heads.

It has drastically aided in reducing the quality of life for current British citizens. Even ones who had moved here many years prior.

You can't take it out on the immigrants, they are just people like the rest of us. It's the policy makers that have caused this problem.

If we could readily move to Canada tomorrow and be better off, I bet Brits would ship off in droves.

i was born in 1976 so have no real world experience of that but i have seen Till Death Us Do Part, Citizen Smith, The Good Life and Bread (80s) So i have a more accurate portrayal of British life, whilst i was a child

To be honest the only people i know that grew up in the UK then were my parents and friends parents, none of which lived in their own (single) places or flats. They house or flat shared shared or got married/mortgaged and bought a house, which my parents did for 12k..... in a really (going down hill fast) London suburb. I come from a very normal, "affluent" working class background. They came from council estates in S. London and worked their way out. Bare educations. (innit )
Is this a case of rose tinted glasses or what??

There was also a lot more council property before the right to buy act. That massively affects the market.

Im sure its all personal experience, more than fact.

 

[joeyjojo]

If we could readily move to Canada tomorrow and be better off, I bet Brits would ship off in droves.

As Commonwealth it's relatively easy to emigrate to Canada.

The reason Brits aren't leaving in droves is the same the Romanians and Bulgarians didn't come here in droves - people have history, family, and friends in their home countries, which few are willing to leave behind.

P.S. Only 22,000 Romanians and Bulgarians arrived in 2014 since they joined the EU. Makes all the scaremongering at the end of 2013 look really silly.

 

[Amp34]

Not sure but I'm certain that you didn't get 3 bed-semis converted into dormitories for 10+ workers.

Why not unskilled as well? I mean, if it's so good for us why isn't it good for other countries like Canada? Not aiming this question at you specifically

If you're unskilled find a Canadian, live with them for a year and then apply for PR.* It's pretty simple whichever route you want to take. The same with Australia, where it's even easier if you're under 30. You can spend two years working in Oz and at the end of that would probably have a company willing to sponsor you.

In reality the biggest issue for most people I've spoken to is the will to do so. It's the unknown. What will they do for work? What will their other half do? Friends/family etc. they would rather stay at home and daydream.

*obviously a little less simple than I'm making out, finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with is difficult at the best of times, let alone a specific nationality. The point still stands though, it's pretty easy to get in to canada, either as a skilled professional, a tradesman or as a spouse.


Anyone know the actual breakdown of immigration into the UK? I'm guessing it'll be something like 90% EU, 9% non EU (mostly skilled immigrants on a quasi points system) and about 1% illegals/asylum seekers. It would be interesting to know the actual numbers.

That breakdown will be why Cameron's pledge to reduce immigration to 25000 would never work. The only way that would happen is to remove the EU portion of the immigration quota.

 

[Basher]

Do other wealthy EU members have the same situation?

 

[StriderX]

Do other wealthy EU members have the same situation?

Well I dunno about the rest of France, but Paris is a cesspit due to unchecked immigration.

 

[atpbx]

It seems such a complex and confusing topic, who knows?

Anectodately I hear and see evidence around the area I live (Lincolnshire - so a lot of manual labour immigration for years) about wage depression, then you get IFS, OBCR (whatever acronym you want) come out and say there is no evidence of wage depression by immigration and they are overall net contributors.

So I guess it's pick the report you want to suit your agenda.

The influx of Eastern Europeans has kicked the arse out of the low end labour market here.
The farmers and gang masters have even less incentive to follow the law or pay minimum wage when they have people queuing round the block who are prepared to work for £3 an hour cash in hand for 18 hours a day no questions asked.

 

[Efour]

The influx of Eastern Europeans has kicked the arse out of the low end labour market here.
The farmers and gang masters have even less incentive to follow the law or pay minimum wage when they have people queuing round the block who are prepared to work for £3 an hour cash in hand for 18 hours a day no questions asked.

What is it with people blaming the immigrants and not the gang members and in this case Farmers????

They have no incentive to follow the law because they can exploit people?? I dont even see how one leads to the other.

They don't follow the law because they can make more profit - Cold hard capitalism in effect.

If they are morally inclined to break the law of the land then fine but don't blame the "immigrants"

 

[Woden]

The influx of Eastern Europeans has kicked the arse out of the low end labour market here.
The farmers and gang masters have even less incentive to follow the law or pay minimum wage when they have people queuing round the block who are prepared to work for £3 an hour cash in hand for 18 hours a day no questions asked.

That's not the immigrants, it's the farmers.

 

[XeNoN89]

You could even be more specific, it's about the expansion of the EU in 2004. Annoyingly we don't have a time machine but it sounds to me like the EU concept worked fine until it was expanded to include member States which were radically different in terms of standard of living.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

 

[scorza]

That's not the immigrants, it's the farmers.

It's the system.

 

[Woden]

It's the system.

It's not the system, is farmers paying illegally low wages. The system is fine until someone breaks the rules.

 

[StriderX]

Farmers wouldn't need to break any laws if they were paid well enough (milk being the primary suspect)

 

[Woden]

Farmers wouldn't need to break any laws if they were paid well enough (milk being the primary suspect)

That's not the immigrants fault either!

Even so, not being paid enough isn't good reason to break the law is it?

 

[StriderX]

That's not the immigrants fault either!

Even so, not being paid enough isn't good reason to break the law is it?

Yes it is?

These farmers are killing themselves because they cant survive...

 

[ubersonic]

That's not the immigrants, it's the farmers.

It's the system.

It's not the system, is farmers paying illegally low wages. The system is fine until someone breaks the rules.

You don't think it might be because people demand cheaper and cheaper products which means the supermarkets slash prices and then lower what they are willing to pay farmers which then causes the farmers to have to cut corners in order to survive?

Or in other words, it's the system.

 

[mid_gen]

If we could readily move to Canada tomorrow and be better off, I bet Brits would ship off in droves.

I'm sure someone else has already replied....but yes it is fairly easy to emigrate to Canada. Apply for job, get job, get visa, relocate. Same as countless other countries around the globe.

Of course in Europe you don't even need the visa. Life is good in Germany, there are lots of Brits over here Lots of highly skilled Brits taking jobs away from hard-working Germans ha.

 

[Amp34]

Well I dunno about the rest of France, but Paris is a cesspit due to unchecked immigration.

Most of the non white Europeans in Paris are from either French North Africa (Algeria, Morocco etc) or from French Central Africa that would have come over on a similar system to many of the Caribbean and Indian populations in the UK.

 

[Freakbro]

You don't think it might be because people demand cheaper and cheaper products which means the supermarkets slash prices and then lower what they are willing to pay farmers which then causes the farmers to have to cut corners in order to survive?

Or in other words, it's the system.

Do we though? When was the last time you rang up a supermarket and demanded cheaper products?

Competition between companies vying for our business drives down prices, but we don't 'demand' it - we just pay whatever price we are being charged on the shelf.

The problem with the Supermarket / Farmer relationship is just that Supermarkets have got to powerful and Farmers have little option but to sell their goods to them, giving the consumer (the Supermarket) the leverage in that situation to dictate the price rather than the Supplier.

When you see a BOGOF offer, it's run by the Supermarket but they make the Supplier pay for it, who has no choice.

 

[scorza]

Most of the non white Europeans in Paris are from either French North Africa (Algeria, Morocco etc) or from French Central Africa that would have come over on a similar system to many of the Caribbean and Indian populations in the UK.

There's a huge problem across the whole of France right now with Roma gypsy pickpocket gangs, who as EU citizens cannot be stopped from operating there. Recently staff at the famous Louvre museum threatened to go on strike unless they received protection from the pick-pockets.

 

[Freakbro]

There's a huge problem across the whole of France right now with Roma gypsy pickpocket gangs, who as EU citizens cannot be stopped from operating there. Recently staff at the famous Louvre museum threatened to go on strike unless they received protection from the pick-pockets.

That's a bit disingenuous (unsurprisingly) as the EU hardly enshrines the right for free movement to conduct illegal activity