Boeing 777 shot down

First of all, I'm sorry for the selfish post. I was genuinely horrified when I heard about this tragedy.. I'm still in a state of disbelief, even. Hopefully someone can be held to account, but we remember that they should be proven guilty, first.

I'm flying with Malaysian on this exact route in December. While I'm not worried about being shot down and I have every confidence in their service, I am worried about the airline going bust, in light of the two recent disasters on top of an already financially troubled airline (though what airline isn't?). I originally thought I'd be covered on my credit card, but having looked into it further, at appears that because I booked through Expedia, I'd not be covered in the event of bankruptcy. My annual travel insurance policy also doesn't mention anything about scheduled airline failure either.

What are the chances of Malaysian going bust? They're state funded already, and I'm sure the government will want to protect them, but I also understand they might need a pretty substantial bail out. I guess we might find out at the end of this quarter.
 
yer_averagejoe said:
First of all, I'm sorry for the selfish post. I was genuinely horrified when I heard about this tragedy.. I'm still in a state of disbelief, even. Hopefully someone can be held to account, but we remember that they should be proven guilty, first.

I'm flying with Malaysian on this exact route in December. While I'm not worried about being shot down and I have every confidence in their service, I am worried about the airline going bust, in light of the two recent disasters on top of an already financially troubled airline (though what airline isn't?). I originally thought I'd be covered on my credit card, but having looked into it further, at appears that because I booked through Expedia, I'd not be covered in the event of bankruptcy. My annual travel insurance policy also doesn't mention anything about scheduled airline failure either.

What are the chances of Malaysian going bust? They're state funded already, and I'm sure the government will want to protect them, but I also understand they might need a pretty substantial bail out. I guess we might find out at the end of this quarter.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-airlines-refunding-tickets-2014-7

If I were in your shoes I would avail of the refund offer and choose another carrier, solely to avoid any potential hassle further down the line.
 
arknor said:
I doubt they are going bust anytime soon
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I would have thought this as well... Isn't it mainly owned by the government? I'd have thought they would do everything to keep the company afloat!

And whilst there has been two incidences, this was completely out of their control (and before anyone poo poos this... they flew a route and at a height that was approved), and the first one might not have been the fault of the airline (this one we may never know the true cause of!)
 
pepsilol said:
LMFAO at those tweets. Didn't realise Joe public were this moronic!
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What, you mean not trusting an airline that flies over a hot military zone, where aircrafts are regularly targeted?

yer_averagejoe said:
I did see that, however our outward flight is on the 10th of december and the return flight on the 1st of January (one day too late), so I'm not sure we'll be covered. I guess I'd also have to seek the refund through expedia too?
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You won't know until you try.
 
Scuzi said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-airlines-refunding-tickets-2014-7

If I were in your shoes I would avail of the refund offer and choose another carrier, solely to avoid any potential hassle further down the line.
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I would imagine a lot of people will be doing this now which will probably increase the likelihood of issues. It's such a shame as there is nothing wrong with MAS as a carrier - this latest incident was sheer co-incidence that it was them, it could just as easily have been somebody like Lufthansa.

I flew with MAS about 5 years ago and it was an excellent experience, probably the best carrier I've flown with. It will be a shame if they do go bust as a result of this.
 
Just been reading the news this morning...


Pro-Russian separatists have been accused of removing 38 bodies from the Malaysia Airlines crash scene and attempting to destroy evidence at the site. The Ukraine government said "terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes", adding it had obtained data which showed bodies had been taken to a morgue in Donetsk.​

Seriously, WTF!? :(


Reports of looting have also emerged as victims' bodies and belongings remain strewn across the area two days after the crash.

Sky's Michelle Clifford, in Donetsk, said: "These reports are gaining currency about looting, that valuables, credit cards are being taken from bags from the wreckage, and in some cases from bodies.

"I think we should also see these reports in the context of a propaganda war. It may be part of a narrative to discredit the rebels.

"But, I have just spoken to a contact I trust and he said with his own eyes he saw the rebels taking money and valuables from luggage at the site."​

Again, WTF!? :(



Looters have robbed the bodies of belongings of victims of the MH17 jet, including fanatical Newcastle United fan John Alder, after the passenger jet was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday.

Freelance journalist Demjen Doroschenko who was at the scene discovered Mr Alder's body outside the village of Grabovo within hours of the disaster and saw that his belongings had been disturbed.

He said: 'I saw John Alder's body and took a picture of a medicine box he had with him. You could see they had been through his things.

'He had a pair of Tesco binoculars with him in a case. They had pulled the binoculars out of the case. But when they say the glass had been broken they threw them back because they weren't any good for them.'

Mr Doroschenko told The Sun: 'They were rifling belongings with torches 50 yards away. Once they'd gone I went over to the body where they had been and found wallets left open, purses empty and papers all over the ground. It's awful.'

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to the Kiev government, said: 'I have received information that terrorist death-hunters were collecting not only cash and jewellery of the crashed Boeing dead passengers but also the credit cards of the victims.'
​

Absolute scum. :rolleyes:



Freddie1980 said:
In one of the papers there saying a 100 of the world's leading AID's researchers were onboard that flight.
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I read that this morning in the paper. They've now revised it down though and reckon it's less than 10.
 
Glaucus said:
Lots of people care about what Israel does. There's several threads on it. However that has been going on for 60+years.
It is rare for a passenger plane shot down.
It's also hardly pure speculation.

You have separatists claiming it was them and they took a Ukraine transport plain down, when it came apparent it was a passenger plane, their claims where removed. Not that you can ever remove something from the net.
You then have the supposed communication intercept. Which also squarely puts it at separatists feets and also collaborates the claim, they thought it was a Ukraine transport plane.
You have US Intel saying it was a missile, but can't say which side at.

You have separatists blocking the parts of the site.
You have claims of sam being moved to Russia.

Although nothing proves it out right, that should be enough for any sane person to only have two options off opinions. Wait for more investigation, or think it was separatists who for what ever reason misidentified, unless investigation turns some other info up.
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Which coincidently absolves them from the claims of the US and Ukraine that they are monsters and terrorists. Nope, according to that recording it was a huge mistake and they initially thought it was a valid military target.
 
olivier renault said:
Don't watch the news. They have a hard on for Putin, for sure. And given his approval rating and his conduct in Ukraine, why acting surprised?

He isn't playing by the West's rules (meaning, acting like a responsible, democratically elected head of state). The rebels messed up, he bears some responsibility in the situation in Ukraine by continually providing logistical and political support (after starting off brightly by Annexing Crimea).

Russians think he is a-ok (according to what poll). So yeah, he's gonna get heat. Screw the guy. I don't think he cares about democracy, sovereignty, or what borders mean. Except his.
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I agree that they will hold some responsibility for this, but in which case I assume all those that agree with that also agree that we hold some responsibility for prolonging the Syrian war that allowed ISIS to become so strong and invade Iraq. we provided the rebels with weapons and support, many of which either fell into ISIS hands or were accidentally given to them. The fighting created a power vacuum which ISIS then filled...
 
NexusK said:
This on top of the way they've been behaving overall with hindering the investigation just makes them look more and more guilty, whether they are or not. It's as though they want to provoke the outside world.
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Their argument is that the bodies may have already been dead... Very far fetched but it explains why.

The problem is the west don't trust the rebels, the rebels don't trust the west and Russia probably don't trust either (but mostly the west). Getting hold of the flight recorders for the Russians would allow them to prove to themselves what happened, rather than rely on information from the west. To an extent it's the same for the rebels not allowing some on the site.

Unfortunately there is a trust issue here so we will never find out what actually happened.
 
Westyfield2 said:

Looters have robbed the bodies of belongings of victims of the MH17 jet, including fanatical Newcastle United fan John Alder, after the passenger jet was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday.

Freelance journalist Demjen Doroschenko who was at the scene discovered Mr Alder's body outside the village of Grabovo within hours of the disaster and saw that his belongings had been disturbed.

He said: 'I saw John Alder's body and took a picture of a medicine box he had with him. You could see they had been through his things.

'He had a pair of Tesco binoculars with him in a case. They had pulled the binoculars out of the case. But when they say the glass had been broken they threw them back because they weren't any good for them.'

Mr Doroschenko told The Sun: 'They were rifling belongings with torches 50 yards away. Once they'd gone I went over to the body where they had been and found wallets left open, purses empty and papers all over the ground. It's awful.'

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to the Kiev government, said: 'I have received information that terrorist death-hunters were collecting not only cash and jewellery of the crashed Boeing dead passengers but also the credit cards of the victims.'
​

Absolute scum. :rolleyes:
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That is just sickening. :(
 
Glaucus said:
How does it absolve them, it's massive incompetence at best.
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Exactly....

The point is they didn't do it on purpose, which both the Ukraine and US appear to be stating.

There seems to be some tragic misunderstanding at the bottom of this, the rebels declared a no fly zone over them, flight controllers declared a no fly zone to 32,000 feet, not realising the rebels could get to 72,000 feet. Having declared their no fly zone he rebels then shoot down several military planes and then a civilian airliner that flew into the area.

Incompetence and/or a mistake, certainly not deliberate...
 
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Amp34 said:
Exactly....

The point is they didn't do it on purpose, which both the Ukraine and US appear to be stating.
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You do realise that civilian planes take that route all the time, and that they are lit up like a Christmas tree.
Did they think the other passenger plane 25miles behind them was military as well?

It's a criminal act, which ever way you look at it.

And whos saying they did it on purpose? Got a link?
 
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