Boeing 777 shot down

[balky12]

No, without us winning the war for the rebels they would have been wiped out by government forces. Things would never have got as bad as they did and today it would be as it was before the uprising.

Suppose it depends on your view of bad. Dictator killing many of his own people to spread fear in order to remain in power with no end it sight.

Taking out dictator to give them atleast half a chance to bring democracy.

Whilst it never had the fairy tale ending (which was very unlikely, true) it's not our fault they squandered it, no matter how unlikely it was.

One of the main reasons I feel the west should stay out of African / Middle Eastern affairs. Let them blow each other to pieces till they see sense (which they will one day)

 

[chief barker]

Back on topic and this whole Russian / Ukraine thing is a total different story. Russia needs to be put on a leash, or knocked back to the stone ages.

And Russia are going to stand back and let that happen?

For the first time in my 42 years I'm scared for the future.

 

[Zethor]

I dont see how not doing anything in Syria is a plus. I dont think there was ever any question of putting boots on the ground, but reducing Assads war machine to smouldering ruins would have punished the use of WMDs, given the moderate rebels a much needed boost, knocked back the groups that now make up ISIS, shown that the west was willing to intervene in a war that didnt involve oil and saved tens of thousands of civilians from Assads indiscriminate murder. Not a plus in my book.

Obama knew how powerful the islamists had become and there were reports about the questionable source of the nerve gas attacks. That's why he was reluctant to order an intervention. Many people believe it was Putin's and China's position that prevented the intervention, which is silly considering the US ignores them on a regular basis. I don't know if he was right or wrong but, considering what ISIS is doing right now, I tend to lean towards the first option.

 

[balky12]

And Russia are going to stand back and let that happen?

For the first time in my 42 years I'm scared for the future.

Ofc not. But what do you do instead? Let them take back all the countries they lost? When will they stop?

It is a touching cloth moment in time.

Personally I don't think Russia's economy can afford a full out war without monumental repercussions. However, they can to a **** of damage on the way down.

 

[Zethor]

No, without us winning the war for the rebels they would have been wiped out by government forces. Things would never have got as bad as they did and today it would be as it was before the uprising.

You know this, how? Syria had a larger, better equipped loyal military force and support from Iran. Yet the war rages on to this day..

The is war, without Gadaffi Libya descended into tribal warfare, just a month or so ago the "official" government we put in place were threatening to blow up an oil tanker because it had docked at a port in a part of the country controlled by a rival tribal faction.

War = threats to blow up tanker? If only wars were like that..

 

[Danny75]

yea and this seems a bit of a coincidence


Just jumping on the anti russian band wagon in a bid to stop all of the talk about paedo parliment and DRIP, this plane coming down must seem like a god sent to the conservatives after the ukip beating they took

Funny you mention UKIP. Not so long ago, just a few months ago, it struck me that making an enemy out of Russia again would be the perfect antidote to the anti-EU movement across Europe, in the minds of those who intend for the EU to continue at any cost. Once the people are whipped up with enough hatred, then anti-EU sentiments will be decried with calls of "traitor" and "how much are the Russians paying you?".

Even if this wasn't part of the plan, it will become an unintended consequence anyway. But such chess moves are planned well in advance these days.

 

[Hagar]

Well I spent my first 37 years in a cold war 1952-89, could spend my last few in another.

 

[RDM]

And Russia are going to stand back and let that happen?

For the first time in my 42 years I'm scared for the future.

Did you not recall the 80s then where we were somewhat closer to a nuclear war than we are now?

 

[MooMoo444]

I've played Red Alert 2. I think we'd beat the Soviet's pretty convincingly.

 

[LOAM]

The way humanity is developing I think the best thing that can happen is total annihilation. I think its time the roaches has a stab at society.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

Back on topic and this whole Russian / Ukraine thing is a total different story. Russia needs to be put on a leash, or knocked back to the stone ages.

take it easy son LOL

 

[ubersonic]

The way humanity is developing I think the best thing that can happen is total annihilation.

Wait, maybe the Arm brought down MH17 with a rocket from a Defender! Or maybe the was no rocket and the Core did it with a blast form a Gaat gun!

 

[scorza]

No, without us winning the war for the rebels they would have been wiped out by government forces. Things would never have got as bad as they did and today it would be as it was before the uprising.




The is war, without Gadaffi Libya descended into tribal warfare, just a month or so ago the "official" government we put in place were threatening to blow up an oil tanker because it had docked at a port in a part of the country controlled by a rival tribal faction.

And the reason no cities are under threat of being wiped out (not that any were before, that was just media spin) is because after deposing Gadaffi and taking over the rebels then quietly dealt with those who had remained loyal, an entire village was turned into a ghost town and Gadaffi's Amazonian guard were all executed (well, unless you consider being raped and beaten for days until you die to be murder).

Let's not forget that Gaddafi knew a thing or two about bringing passenger planes down as well, or was Lockerbie a false flag as well?

 

[Tombo]

I dont see how not doing anything in Syria is a plus. I dont think there was ever any question of putting boots on the ground, but reducing Assads war machine to smouldering ruins would have punished the use of WMDs, given the moderate rebels a much needed boost, knocked back the groups that now make up ISIS, shown that the west was willing to intervene in a war that didnt involve oil and saved tens of thousands of civilians from Assads indiscriminate murder. Not a plus in my book.

There was never any concrete evidence that the Syrian army used the Sarin as far as I recall, just John Kerry and the US saying "we definitely have evidence they did it but we won't show anyone" like they are doing now. They know better than everyone else and they don't have to prove it, and you're fine with that apparently.

Let's not forget that Gaddafi knew a thing or two about bringing passenger planes down as well, or was Lockerbie a false flag as well?

Quoted the wrong post there?

 

[balky12]

take it easy son LOL

Whilst it does sound heavy handed, threats and sanctions don't seem to be slowing them down or much of a deterrent.

More sanctions would eventually work, however, sanctions they are currently implementing (ones that wouldn't have a negative effect on other countries) will not have an effect big enough to deter.

 

[thep02]

Doesn't that mean that Russia should treat former Soviet states like Ukraine and Georgia as equals and not talk down to them, or invade them?

Ukraine had a coup utilising nazi street thugs who terrified the ethnic Russians by ranting against them so Russia protected its assets and people in Crimea by giving said folk a referendum to join Russia, not an invasion.

For georgia the twit in power tried to bomb and shell the ethnic Russians into submission, against international law, so Russia destroyed georgia's ability to be idiots again and then left the cuntry, again not an invasion.

 

[ubersonic]

You know this, how? Syria had a larger, better equipped loyal military force and support from Iran. Yet the war rages on to this day..

Because the rebels in Libya were a smaller amount of the population than they are in Syria, and they were getting their backsides handed to them before we stepped in, that's why.

War = threats to blow up tanker? If only wars were like that..

When the threat comes from one faction in a tribal war ravaging a country and is issued to a tanker docked at a port belonging to another faction, yes.

Let's not forget that Gaddafi knew a thing or two about bringing passenger planes down as well, or was Lockerbie a false flag as well?

I don't see how his alleged involvement in a plane bombing 23 years earlier gave us course to destabilise his country and murder him

 

[thep02]

Whilst it does sound heavy handed, threats and sanctions don't seem to be slowing them down or much of a deterrent.

More sanctions would eventually work, however, sanctions they are currently implementing (ones that wouldn't have a negative effect on other countries) will not have an effect big enough to deter.

Pray tell how do you knock Russia back to the stone age without killing all life in western Europe, if you want to commit suicide do it in a dark corner by yourself and leave my family out of it, ta.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

Whilst it does sound heavy handed, threats and sanctions don't seem to be slowing them down or much of a deterrent.

More sanctions would eventually work, however, sanctions they are currently implementing (ones that wouldn't have a negative effect on other countries) will not have an effect big enough to deter.

okay, and who is to decided a slap is to be given on russia? the good'ol USA invading countries for almost no reason? Or the UK which has exploited half the planet in exchange for nothing?

Also, i dont if you've been told, russia has 6500 active nuclear warheads on board advanced ICBM's, you do are aware it will retaliate if the **** hits the fan and west attacks it, now dont you?

 

[Danny75]

Rebels/separatists/freedom fighters manage to find and deliver MH17's black boxes to Malaysian authorities, before Kiev even releases their air traffic control recordings of communications with the flight, which is the far simpler job to do. The recordings remain in possession of Ukraine's security services, so far undisclosed.

Outrageous. Clearly, the rebels and Putin must do far more.