Boeing 777 shot down

Jonnycoupe said:
Different media spin on the event from Asian times citing it was Ukrainian fired. Not sure if this Carlos the Air Traffic Controller has been mentioned before or is simply made up?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html

His Twitter feed.
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/20...rport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/
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Carlos the Spanish air traffic controller was brought up at the weekend, he doesn't exist (according to the Spanish embassy in Kiev) and his twitter account is likely to be a Russian propaganda job - it was active earlier in the year with anti-Maidan stuff.
 
The trouble is we now know the weirdos at gchq and nsa can alter and control twitter and other social media accounts rendering them useless as sources of evidence now only good for whipping up mobs of fools.
 
The Ukrainian air forces have carried out a missile strike in 30 kilometers from the Malaysian MH17 plane crash site – despite the 40-kilometer ceasefire, Ria Novosti news agency reported.
 
thep02 said:
The trouble is we now know the weirdos at gchq and nsa can alter and control twitter and other social media accounts rendering them useless as sources of evidence now only good for whipping up mobs of fools.
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someone should start a version of twitter on TOR :D

real internet is just so easy for the governments to manipulate
 
MoRT489 said:
Same goes for press in other countries. You can't trust any press, you have to make your own assessment based on the facts presented.

Case in point, Western media outlets misinterpreted/lied about this headline-grabbing story: http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-plane-photo-perverted/
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Generally speaking, I think if you look at as many free press outlets as possible and have a modicum of critical thinking you should be able to form a reasonably accurate picture of what actually went on i.e. if every free news outlet is reporting one version events, then what actually happened is similar to what's reported. Russia Today/Ria Novosti/Moscow Times etc have zero credibility as they will always report what the Kremlin tells them to.

Btw, despite the headline and spin, that RT article confirms what the western media were reporting.
 
thep02 said:
The trouble is we now know the weirdos at gchq and nsa can alter and control twitter and other social media accounts rendering them useless as sources of evidence now only good for whipping up mobs of fools.
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Worryingly it appears much of the evidence the US talk about is based on social media accounts...

http://gu.com/p/4v5j5

18:48

White House press secretary Josh Earnest has dismissed Russian counter-claims of Ukrainian culpability*for the destruction of MH17.

"We know that the Ukrainian military was not operating anti-aircraft weapons at that area at that time. We've seen social media accounts of that SA-11 system moving from Ukraine back acorss the border into Russia. And we've seen social media accounts of the separatists [talkign] about the shootdown of the plane."

"Russian claims to the contrary are getting both much more desperate and harder to believe."
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19:00

Earnest addresses what the administration knows, or can say, about evidence of rebels' interference at the site.

"Most of this is driven by the refusal by Russian-backed separatists … to provide access to the scene. [There are reports that] indicate that parts of the plane are being moved around, there are reports that Russian-backed separatists are handling the bodies that are not in line with generally accepted standard.

"Not only is that added insult to a sources of pain to families that've already lost so much, it's also tampering with evidence."

Earnest bases this on " a number of reports that give us concern with the way that that scene is … being handled."

Asked about the credibility of social media reports which in part form the basis of this assessment, Earnest stresses that "the president's priority is that this investigation should be conducted by an international set of investigators that don't have an agenda beyond getting to the truth."

He says it's a priority that "these aren't just neutral arbiters but that they're also trained. People who have experience with … these matters."
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I also like this...

19:07

The US "is more credible" than Russia, US State Department spokesperson Marie Harf has said at a separate press conference.

Pressed on her refusal to provide intelligence underlying the US assessment that a SA-11 missile system brought down MH17, and that Russia could be linked strongly to separatists presumed responsible, Harf said the Russian government was responsible for spreading "misinformation and propaganda throughout [the conflict]."

"We are not equally credible parties … we don't put out mass amounts of propaganda."

Harf says the State Department assessment is that an SA-11 took down the plane from separatist-controlled territory, and that rebels have been "in possession of an SA-11 as early as 14 July."

"We know, period, that what's happening in eastern Ukraine would not be happening without the support of the Russian government."
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So we don't need to actually see the evidence the US has, rather believe them without question?

That is in no way a suggestion that Russia aren't putting out propaganda.

deanolfc said:
The Ukrainian air forces have carried out a missile strike in 30 kilometers from the Malaysian MH17 plane crash site – despite the 40-kilometer ceasefire, Ria Novosti news agency reported.
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The rebels wanted a 6km zone so I assume the ceasefire zone is likely to be that rather than the 40km zone the government suggested.
 
scorza said:
Generally speaking, I think if you look at as many free press outlets as possible and have a modicum of critical thinking you should be able to form a reasonably accurate picture of what actually went on i.e. if every free news outlet is reporting one version events, then what actually happened is similar to what's reported. Russia Today/Ria Novosti/Moscow Times etc have zero credibility as they will always report what the Kremlin tells them to.

Btw, despite the headline and spin, that RT article confirms what the western media were reporting.
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They all get their stories off AP or Reuters so quite a limited pool actually.

@Amp34 fully agree, it's as if the yanks didn't know we know they are lying pos.
 
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ubersonic said:
No it doesn't, it repeats what they were reporting in order to ridicule them then tells they truth, complete with video and additional pictures.
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Nowhere did I see the BBC claim that guy with the teddy bear was a looter, but he was picking through the wreckage, hence the photo of him with the teddy bear.
 
scorza said:
Nowhere did I see the BBC claim that guy with the teddy bear was a looter, but he was picking through the wreckage, hence the photo of him with the teddy bear.
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He was picking it up to show that children died on the plane.
He then did the prayer thing after carefully placing the the toy where it came from.

Western reports showed a guy posing with a toy like it's someone recording the moment for a family photo album.

I bet the photos of the guy with the ring in his hand are misleading as well, the bloke was probably just looking for any inscription or name engraved inside the ring or it might even have been his own ring in the first place and he took it off to give it a wipe down because it was dirty.

You never know the truth only the angle news source wants to portray
 
Amp34 said:
Worryingly it appears much of the evidence the US talk about is based on social media accounts...

http://gu.com/p/4v5j5

I also like this...

So we don't need to actually see the evidence the US has, rather believe them without question?

That is in no way a suggestion that Russia aren't putting out propaganda.


The rebels wanted a 6km zone so I assume the ceasefire zone is likely to be that rather than the 40km zone the government suggested.
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So let me get this straight, you personally believe that US sources are not better than Russian sources. Same quality, same chance to be propaganda. Correct?
 
arknor said:
maybe don't announce you shot a plane down and then attempt to delete the tweet? makes you look guilty.
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Yeah, kind of kicked themselves in the teeth there :rolleyes:

A lab in the UK will receive the jet's flight recorders, Malaysian deputy transport minister Aziz Kaprawi has told Reuters. "The procedure is to have the black boxes sent to the nearest lab that is authorised by the ICAO [ International Civil Aviation Organisation] for analysis," he said.
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hopefully the cockpit recording is in tact.

since there's photos showing what appears to be the cockpit with supposed shrapnel damage from what we are lead to believe is a missile
 
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