Boeing 777 shot down

scorza said:
It doesn't matter - this isn't a military forum or even a military thread, a rifle meets the dictionary definition of 'gun'.
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Because the definition of gun encompasses so many weapons the military requires more precise words. It doesn't mean a rifle or a pistol isn't a gun, the military just need to know specifically which type of gun it is.
 
Westyfield2 said:
Apparently they've shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets today.
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Message from Putin to World: I don't care that 300 of your innocent civilians have just been killed. My guys are going to continue destabilising Ukraine because Russia looking strong is more important than your lives.
 
scorza said:
It doesn't matter - this isn't a military forum or even a military thread, a rifle meets the dictionary definition of 'gun'.
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It does matter if someone is going to make certain claims then use language that illustrates they've likely got very little experience on the matter...
 
scorza said:
Message from Putin to World: I don't care that 300 of your innocent civilians have just been killed. My guys are going to continue destabilising Ukraine because Russia looking strong is more important than your lives.
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OR... Ukrainians suggest ceasefire but continue to fly attack jets over occupied territory. What would you do given their track record for dropping bombs?
 
scorza said:
Message from Putin to World: I don't care that 300 of your innocent civilians have just been killed. My guys are going to continue destabilising Ukraine because Russia looking strong is more important than your lives.
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You do understand the is still a civil war going on right? Kiev forces have used this opportunity to increase their offensive while the rebels struggle to repel them and deal with the crash site. The Su25's in question were shot down AFTER hitting their objective.
 
I know this is an RT link, but nowhere else has picked it up yet and it does seem quite convincing (I'm not saying I am convinced, merely that it doesn't appear to be tinfoil junk).

Apparently according to RT bloggers have uncovered evidence that the pictures being circulated of the Buk allegedly running for the boarder are actually old photos of one of Ukraine's Buks.

http://rt.com/news/174868-ukraine-buk-falsification-continues/

EDIT:

Having read all that, DAMN, so the Buk we have been seeing pictures of and the truck moving it are both Ukranian, the pictures of it without the truck were taken in non rebel land, and the is even a "selfie" of a Ukranian conscript taken in front of it and the other Buks from that unit. Why exactly is the internet getting to the bottom of this when the governments of the world aren't? It's like the Boston bombing again, the internet sorts out the facts before the G-men are even ready to announce preliminary findings lol.
 
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if Russia were sending tanks and stuff to the rebels do you think they would try to disguise them as captured Ukrainian vehicles?

You can't believe either side
 
Disguise them yes, but post pictures on the social media accounts of Ukrainian soldiers weeks ago showing them with the Buks? that sounds a bit far fetched, and like the page says everyone in that old video is wearing warm clothes when it's now summer. If it is all a set up it's incredibly complex /shrug
 
is this Ukrainian soldier as made up as the traffic controller was? is he an active serving member of the Ukraine army?
“I do not take part in hostilities, civil war is not for me; oligarchs are carving power whereas ordinary people are dying like flies.”
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Surely the war is not optional if you are in the army.

maybe he's a separatist and that buk is stolen weeks ago or maybe he's made up like the traffic controller
 
arknor said:
is this Ukrainian soldier as made up as the traffic controller was? is he an active serving member of the Ukraine army?
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Well there's a picture of him that he posted on his social media account some time ago standing in his Ukrainian uniform in front of three Buks including the infamous one, and the article also lists his name and confirms he's a Ukrainian conscript /shrug.

Here's his full FB profile including many Ukrainian army pics if you still think he's fictitious: https://www.facebook.com/sergey.paschenko.92/photos
 
its entirely possible that the pictures of it "heading for the border" are nothing to do with the shootdown

its also possible that the BUK was "liberated" from the Ukrainians (they say it wasnt but might not wish to advertise that fact)

who knows - with this type of "internet evidence" nothing is reliable

even with none of the "evidence" it still makes far more sence that it was the rebels:

a) Ukrainians have air traffic control and so would know what was going on (rebels dont)
b) The flight had already flown across Ukraine (without getting shot down) you dont shoot down intruders when they are leaving you shoot them down as they are entering (or even before)
c) Rebels dont have planes so why would Ukraine be activly looking for things to shoot down?
d) what would Ukraine gain from shooting down an airliner, but not having any reliable evidence that it was the rebels (if they were tryng to frame them?)
e) Rebels keep shooting planes down (something like 29 now, even 2 today!) how many planes has ukraine shot down this year?
 
but which side does he actually support now? from that quote on RT I'm guessing it's not Ukraine, just because he was in the ukraine army as a conscript doesn't mean he didn't split off with the separatists.

might explain why that buk shot a passenger jet if it was stolen by conscripts.

RT is about as close to coming from putins lips as possible, I wouldn't take anything it says at face value, same with sky , bbc , fox , cnn and any other state media
 
arknor said:
but which side does he actually support now? from that quote on RT I'm guessing it's not Ukraine, just because he was in the ukraine army as a conscript doesn't mean he didn't split off with the separatists
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Good point, he hasn't updated Facebook since the start of July (though he has been preoccupied most likely lol).

I just love this Facebook entry from April 2013: "Started Working at Self-propelled anti-aircraft weapon" XD
 
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