Botched execution in the US

[jh30uk]

Just more proof that the death penalty is inhumane

So is cold blooded murder, they are subhuman.

 

[linktoinsanity]

Being dead also doesn't give you a chance to learn from your mistakes, or seek retribution through trying to fix the problems of society through your own experiences. It has a more powerful message seeing someone learn from their mistakes in a lifelong jail sentence sharing his sorrow and grief and anguish for the crimes he did than it does just killing them. Other than the fact that consented murder is absolutely vile in my opinion.

Ok, so if someone is a serial killer, you think they've learned their lesson after the first victim?

Personally I am in favour of the death penalty in the most extreme of cases (I.e. serial killers and serial offenders of rape, child molesting etc.), but if it is their first crime then maybe then can learn from their mistakes..

However I think it is important to think how would the victim feel? Personally I'd want my murderer to suffer as much as I did and then also find out what it's like to die, painfully.

There is also the argument of accidental death and heat of the moment killings (i.e. Manslaughter cases), which may not necessarily make the perpetrator someone who is likely to do it again. In these cases the death penalty is just barbaric and should not be used.

 

[Freefaller]

Someone who rapes and kills an 11 month old, doesn't deserve the chance to learn from their mistakes, or seek retribution. They deserve to die in the most foul, horrific, painful way imaginable.

I truly believe that, if that makes me barbaric then so be it.

I don't think it makes you barbaric, it just makes you have a different opinion to mine, which is perfectly fair.

I just do not believe in revenge/eye for an eye type of justice.

I'm not saying I'm right, I just have a very different outlook on these things.

Ok, so if someone is a serial killer, you think they've learned their lesson after the first victim?

They may have a pathological disorder - I'm not saying that makes it right, but surely they should be given a chance to right their wrongs, or to be fixed. By identifying traits and behaviours, and learning how to "fix" these problems it should make it easier in future to identify these people and to better treat them and/or ensure that they do not commit the crimes in the first place.

However I think it is important to think how would the victim feel? Personally I'd want my murderer to suffer as much as I did and then also find out what it's like to die, painfully.

I wouldn't at all. It would take an extraordinary amount of strength, resolve and soul searching as well as other things for me to find it in me not to wish those things, but deep down, I wouldn't want to because it is inherently wrong. Why would I want to inflict pain and suffering to someone else? How does that make me feel any better about what has transpired? How does that absolve that person of the wrongs they did? It doesn't, it further torments me, breeds more anger and hatred within me, and puts me further back to recovery and getting on with my life.

I'm not saying all would react this way - but for me it is a very bleak outlook on life to have things so black and white.

 

[Type_R]

Surprisingly what this episode is all about has little to do with the drugs being used and even less that the EU has stopped supplying them to the US.

The US is more than capable of sourcing their own drugs, that is a serious non-issue. I say that as, in Anaesthesia we have loads of different drugs, that can be used for this purpose.

What is an issue is the fact that someone who allegedly calls themselves a 'doctor' is too inept to deliver the correct dosages of the drugs to kill someone. Surprising that Conrad Murray managed to kill M.Jackson inadvertently apparently, yet a supposed 'doctor' cannot do it when trying.

Clear case of correct equipment incorrect execution (no pun intended )

 

[jh30uk]

It is black and white, he killed and raped so he is now dead and cannot do it again.

Sure it is quicker than being locked up but the jails in UK esp. are like holiday camps today.

Swap from drugs to a bullet, cheaper and faster, the EU.

 

[Type_R]

It is black and white, he killed and raped so he is now dead and cannot do it again.

Sure it is quicker than a being locked up but the jails in UK esp. are like holiday camps today.

Swap from drugs to a bullet, cheaper and faster, the EU.

Completely agree

 

[Orionaut]

What makes anybody think it was Botched?

(As an aside, what offences, if any, would have been committed by somebody replacing some of the drug cocktail with distilled water??)

 

[Basher]

Swap from drugs to a bullet, cheaper and faster, the EU.

Execution is generally more expensive than life without parole ...

 

[glenimp617]

Execution is generally more expensive than life without parole ...

how much is a bullet, petrol and a match?

probably cheaper than their last meal

 

[jh30uk]

Do not know the figure now but decades ago it was about £33k per head per year to keep a prisoner in UK, how can death cost more?

And that was before they has TV in cells and Sky etc.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Execution is generally more expensive than life without parole ...

Execution itself is not expensive, it's the additional court process in the US system which is expensive. These costs can be cut significantly.

 

[Freefaller]

I think it's really rather macabre and a shame looking at the cost of someone's life in terms of their execution :/

Remember you still have to have the witnesses to see this barbaric act - it's something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Seeing someone die in front of you is not a pleasant experience - I doubt that whether or not they were a good or bad person makes it any different.

 

[Art]

Execution itself is not expensive, it's the additional court process in the US system which is expensive. These costs can be cut significantly.

The reason many of these costs are there is to be absolutely as sure as possible that the person is guilty before they're executed. Even then innocent people have still been killed.

You can reduce those costs by giving people fewer opportunities to appeal, but that'll risk increasing the number of innocent people executed for crimes they didn't commit.

 

[jh30uk]

I think it's really rather macabre and a shame looking at the cost of someone's life in terms of their execution :/

Remember you still have to have the witnesses to see this barbaric act - it's something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Seeing someone die in front of you is not a pleasant experience - I doubt that whether or not they were a good or bad person makes it any different.

Pretty sure it is karma for the peeps watching who's mother/child was raped/killed.

They can however choose not to and still get some justice and closure.

The Moors Murders proves keeping them alive does not help the victims family.

 

[D.P.]

Do not know the figure now but decades ago it was about £33k per head per year to keep a prisoner in UK, how can death cost more?

And that was before they has TV in cells and Sky etc.

The average cost of an execution in California was $300 million, or £185million
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/20/california-death-penalty-execution-costs

Legally deciding to kill someone is very expensive. Legal fees become extortionate but general running costs soar as well. Someone who is told he is going to be killed has nothing to loose so is much more likely to misbehave in prison, try to escape and think much less of killing a guard if they believe it might help them escape. Large parts of the cost just go to the added security.

 

[jh30uk]

Get rid of all that circus BS and just kill them after trial not 10-30 years later.

Cannot read 2nd part, sorry.

 

[elmarko]

Get rid of all that circus BS and just kill them after trial not 10-30 years later.

Cannot read 2nd part, sorry.

Don't you think fact tracked executions may create a few additional problems & we would see a large increase the number of innocent people being executed?.

 

[jh30uk]

That is always the case, peep in jail for life that are innocent of some crimes, get caught red handed though not much to say.

The vast majority did the crimes.

DNA inside the child etc.

 

[Xordium]

shouldn't this count as a cruel or unusual punishment, I mean potassium infussion without local anesthetic is very unpleasent, even if the vein blew. Not sure what the other drugs are beside midazolam, think i remember reading hydromorphone.

But dieing that way would certainly be extremely painful, no matter what the guy did, the punishment was death, not torture and then death.

I put it back here:

It was a poor choice of drugs to be honest. I really don't know why they chose midazolam and the vecuronium in the doses they do - there is no logic behind it.

Basically they used midazolam with no opiate in a relatively low dosage (think sedation) then suffocated him with vecuronium then pumped a load of potassium in to give him cardiac failure.

To be honest that is just sheer incompetence and which ever medical practitioner signed off on this should be removed from the medical register.

 

[McBain]

I don't think it makes you barbaric, it just makes you have a different opinion to mine, which is perfectly fair.

I just do not believe in revenge/eye for an eye type of justice.

I'm not saying I'm right, I just have a very different outlook on these things.

Fair comment, each to their own and all that jazz!