Botched execution in the US

ubersonic said:
Exactly, and removing human write offs like him without the expense of locking them up until the end of time is a good thing :)
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No one is a write off - what a bleak and twisted view of the world you have :( People err, that's what gives us things to learn from, we better ourselves from the mistakes of others.

The woman he brutally assaulted, raped, tortured and murdered?
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http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26235877&postcount=89

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cute-two-inmates-using-untested-drug-cocktail

There were 2 inmates due to have this new cocktail of drugs used.

It isn't supposed to, it punished him for his crime and served as a warning to others.
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It doesn't work though does it, people keep on committing crimes, and if anything makes people feel they have nothing to lose so go further than they would do ordinarily.

If you're dead you're not punished, you do not have to live with the mistakes you've done. I'm sorry you have such a black and white view of the world :(

Being dead also doesn't give you a chance to learn from your mistakes, or seek retribution through trying to fix the problems of society through your own experiences. It has a more powerful message seeing someone learn from their mistakes in a lifelong jail sentence sharing his sorrow and grief and anguish for the crimes he did than it does just killing them. Other than the fact that consented murder is absolutely vile in my opinion.
 
Freefaller said:
If you're dead you're not punished, you do not have to live with the mistakes you've done. I'm sorry you have such a black and white view of the world :(
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indeed and some of the people who commit crimes, do not do so out of premeditation or choice, its due to mental illness in some cases.
 
elmarko said:
Could you explain how a person executed after 15 years has a greater chance of being let out than somebody who wasn't executed after 15 years?.
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You said that "Life imprisonment retains the ability to let them out if it turns out they are innocent", I was pointing out that execution does too for a couple of decades.


elmarko said:
Since when was Karma the law?, it's a mystical concept which implies the murderer got what he deserved (a bad thing) due to his actions.

If a person believes in Karma then surely by the same logic why did the baby have a bad thing happen to them if they did nothing wrong? (unless of course, the entire concept of Karma is a load of *******).
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Again you misunderstood my post, I never mentioned Karma, you did. You used the "same logic" that if Karma (the belief that whatever you do comes back to you) was involved then the baby must have done something to deserve being raped but it didn't so no Karma.

I was merely pointing out that that isn't even close to being the same logic. Punishment is an effect of a crime not the other way around, the baby was a victim that did not mean it had done anything wrong, Lockett was being punished by the law/society for his crimes, it isn't the same logic.
 
Freefaller said:
It's not, it's just a barbaric "eye for an eye" sort of act - it serves no justice at all. It's pure cold blooded revenge - not even a "crime de passion". So what if he's dead - it doesn't undo what he's done, it doesn't absolve him of anything, and it puts blood on the hands of the innocent that are involved in the case. And in many cases leaves people feeling empty and as though no justice has actually been undertaken.

Just because someone is guilty, it doesn't mean they should die for their crimes. The power of forgiveness, and rehabilitation is far more poignant a message to put out there in the universe. It shows evolution, compassion and a move away from barbarism.
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Blood is on your hands already. You're quite literally drenched in the blood of not just wrong doers but the innocent also. The lifestyle you enjoy only exists because we use deadly force for political and economic means. Why are you drawing the line at this? I cannot imagine your heart bleeds every time you buy a new pair of shoes over the misery inflicted by your desire for cheap footwear.
 
How come European drug companies are refusing to supply the drugs? moral grounds? I did wonder why the sudden raft of anti-'Death Row' documentaries on the TV recently.

This incident is going to be a huge blow to proponents of it.

P.S. Why doesn't the US have the ability to make the drugs themselves?
 
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We need to get two things straight. In the UK it would cost around the same amount of money (although there are no detailed reports, there are estimations) to keep someone in prison on an average case for a life sentence as it would to sentence someone to death. There is a lot more to it than going infront of one judge and him saying you're a dead man walking and that's that. But also as said above there is no evidence to show and infact evidence to show it does the opposite that the death penalty puts people off offending.

We need to remember that most people that do these crimes are psychotic and therefore it won't stop them.

I think we can stop with all this "why should I pay to keep someone in jail" you're paying to keep the streets safe and to get justice to those that deserve it, even if we took those fees out of the equation you'd still pay the same amount of money it would just line someone else's pocket.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Blood is on your hands already. You're quite literally drenched in the blood of not just wrong doers but the innocent also. The lifestyle you enjoy only exists because we use deadly force for political and economic means. Why are you drawing the line at this? I cannot imagine your heart bleeds every time you buy a new pair of shoes over the misery inflicted by your desire for cheap footwear.
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Now you're being absurd (reductio ad absurdum) - drawing on other things to justify the execution of someone who committed a crime.

ubersonic said:
Those who are beyond rehabilitation are.
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No one is beyond that chance.


Living with mistakes isn't punishment it's regret, punishment is something done to the offendant like prison sentences, execution, etc.
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Wrong.

It's clear we're going to clash on this, so I suggest we just agree to disagree.
 
Freefaller said:
Now you're being absurd (reductio ad absurdum) - drawing on other things to justify the execution of someone who committed a crime.
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You claim blood would be on your hands if we executed a violent criminal, so why is it not on your hands when we kill the Taleban in Afghanistan, when we accidentaly bomb a school, or when Rhanwat Ali dies of starvation because you've not done anything about his circumstances?

It's YOUR original claim that is absurd. There is no more blood on societies hands for executing a violent criminal than there is already. It's a drop of red in an ocean of the stuff.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
You claim blood would be on your hands if we executed a violent criminal, so why is it not on your hands when we kill the Taleban in Afghanistan, when we accidentaly bomb a school, or when Rhanwat Ali dies of starvation because you've not done anything about his circumstances?

It's YOUR original claim that is absurd. There is no more blood on societies hands for executing a violent criminal than there is already. It's a drop of red in an ocean of the stuff.
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If a person views the death penalty for crime to be unjust, the existence of other injustices is not a reason not to act.
 
ubersonic said:
You said that "Life imprisonment retains the ability to let them out if it turns out they are innocent", I was pointing out that execution does too for a couple of decades.
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Which does little for them if evidence proving them innocent comes out after.

ubersonic said:
Again you misunderstood my post, I never mentioned Karma, you did. You used the "same logic" that if Karma (the belief that whatever you do comes back to you) was involved then the baby must have done something to deserve being raped but it didn't so no Karma.

I was merely pointing out that that isn't even close to being the same logic. Punishment is an effect of a crime not the other way around, the baby was a victim that did not mean it had done anything wrong, Lockett was being punished by the law/society for his crimes, it isn't the same logic.
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The problem is you are responding to a post without reading the back story.

I didn't mention Karma to begin with, it was simply a reply to another who mentioned it specifically - you are arguing against a point which was never made, no comparisons were drawn between him being punished for his crimes - simply that Karma as a concept is flawed.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
You claim blood would be on your hands if we executed a violent criminal, so why is it not on your hands when we kill the Taleban in Afghanistan, when we accidentaly bomb a school, or when Rhanwat Ali dies of starvation because you've not done anything about his circumstances?

It's YOUR original claim that is absurd. There is no more blood on societies hands for executing a violent criminal than there is already. It's a drop of red in an ocean of the stuff.
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Oh dear...

I do not sanction the actions of politicians, or those that they control (like the army.), how am I responsible for their actions? What direct causation is there from what I do?

Sure, you could potentially argue that I am indirectly connected, but not through choice, hence why we have the power to vote and change things we are unhappy with. This is why a lot of states have abolished the death penalty, people had their say and they didn't want that sort of thing going on.

If I could save everyone unfairly persecuted, and stop bloodshed, and allow the world to live in peace and harmony, rest assured I would do it, I pray that this will happen one day - unfortunately we're an immature race, and we will keep making mistakes until we evolve further.

Placing the blood on my hands for wars, and ill treatment of others is pretty absurd.

We're talking about direct retribution direct links to a cause and effect (I punched him because he kicked me) - you can hypothesis, and put your 6 degrees of separation on all of the decisions you make onto yourself/others, if that puts you at peace, then please carry on.

I know my conscious is clear however through how I live my life, and what I do to make sure I behave as well and as thoughtfully as I can.
 
Freefaller said:
Being dead also doesn't give you a chance to learn from your mistakes, or seek retribution through trying to fix the problems of society through your own experiences..
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Someone who rapes and kills an 11 month old, doesn't deserve the chance to learn from their mistakes, or seek retribution. They deserve to die in the most foul, horrific, painful way imaginable.

I truly believe that, if that makes me barbaric then so be it.
 
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murdering and raping an 11 month old child, would a better punishment not be to get one of those industrial womens sex toy things and rape him with it for a few weeks. see if it breaks him, whereas the death penalty its over in about an hour

personally i feel the dealth penalty is ok for the simple reason i dont plan on becoming a serial killer and will never get the dealth penalty. However being 'merica they have to over complicate the process, would a better way of executing someone not be to hang them (long rope), behead them or firing squad that way its done they're dead and there is no debate over whether or not they suffered.
 
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