Boy removed from school in transgender rights row

RaohNS said:
Not sure if srs or trolling.

If she calls him Sir he could complain to say he doesn't want to be referred to as a Sir but a Miss and then the school should apply the equal amount of its own self imposed jurisprudence against the student
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According to the article that's a scenario that wouldn't happen. Also I doubt she would double down on her own views like he did.

EdwardTeach said:
How is that a "fact" why are gender and sex not the same thing?
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Sex is biological, gender is social and cultural
 
FoxEye said:
So what does that mean?

That gender is a choice to be mulled over carefully, weighing up the pros and cons of each gender before deciding?

That people can be confused or mentally ill rather than being born into the wrong body?
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Gender isn't really even a thing, as I've said before. It's a series of stereotypes that we ascribe to people of each sex.
 
Vonhelmet said:
That doesn't change the fact that gender and sex are not at all the same thing.

Dysphoria also means unhappiness with something. It doesn't simply mean a conflict or lack of congruity.
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I agree with you completely

Although as i wasn't trying to stipulate oppinions that wouldn't be suprising.

I am under the impression that people are starting the conflate Personality with Gender, thus hijacking the word that had been taught for many years as another term for biological sex.

I don't think a Person who is a biological woman who wants to change their gender is actually doing so, rather the person has a unique identity and personality traits, conflating personality with gender is divisive because of the way the word has been used for hundreds of years.
 
Vonhelmet said:
Sex is your physical body. Gender is your mental state. The two are not the same and do not correlate well at anything approaching all times.
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The vast majority of the world see and man or a woman. Gender seems to be important to people who want to be different to what they are, be that a man or a woman. There are of course medical exceptions, a middle ground if you like, but fact is genders have only really been a discussion in the social age. 40 years ago no one outside of a handful of people even considered them really. It was blokes and birds, the mental state you allude to was never discussed in my childhood, it has become an elevated element for a certain set of the current generation in the main.

I make no judgement, live and let live.
 
Anyone over the age of 25 will remember filling out forms that used to say:

Sex/Gender _______

The fact that the word Gender has been hijacked and conflated with Individual Personality is what causes the problems. You can be as feminine as you want as a man, you can dress as a woman and have whatever surgery you desire.. That doesn't make your Sex Female.

If your personality shares traits most commonly found within females, as well as probably sharing the sexual preference of straight women, these are personality traits.. Nothing more.
 
A 6 year old kid will believe a fat man delivers presents every year by climbing down the chimney and a fairy takes away your teeth and a bunny delivers chocolate eggs, of course it will listen to its parents when they tell it you know what actually Jack you’re a Jane instead why not wear this dress to school today.

Years ago that was just playing dressing up, now it’s a parent saying they are a different gender entirely.
 
amigafan2003 said:
When I'm lecturing, I never say "well done chaps" or "good one girls", even if I think the group is all boys or all girls (although group profiles stop it being a surprise, but sometimes you get parachuted into cover a session so you're not always sure) - it's always something non gender specific, like "well done everyone". It certainly takes some practice!
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terley said:
Anyone over the age of 25 will remember filling out forms that used to say:

Sex/Gender _______

The fact that the word Gender has been hijacked and conflated with Individual Personality is what causes the problems. You can be as feminine as you want as a man, you can dress as a woman and have whatever surgery you desire.. That doesn't make your Sex Female.

If your personality shares traits most commonly found within females, as well as probably sharing the sexual preference of straight women, these are personality traits.. Nothing more.
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Housey said:
The vast majority of the world see and man or a woman. Gender seems to be important to people who want to be different to what they are, be that a man or a woman. There are of course medical exceptions, a middle ground if you like, but fact is genders have only really been a discussion in the social age. 40 years ago no one outside of a handful of people even considered them really. It was blokes and birds, the mental state you allude to was never discussed in my childhood, it has become an elevated element for a certain set of the current generation in the main.

I make no judgement, live and let live.
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40 years? The ancient Greeks understood the concept of gender for heaven's sake.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Sure you can if they know his beliefs don't align with theirs and are just looking for an opportunity.
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I doubt it would get to an investigation of this kind of it were just parents out to cause trouble. Schools tend to know who is out to cause bother. If it were as simple as that I imagine they'd just give a token apology.
 
Vonhelmet said:
Gender isn't really even a thing, as I've said before. It's a series of stereotypes that we ascribe to people of each sex.
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So logically there are various ways of escaping those stereotypes. You can be effeminate. You can be gay or bisexual or a furry. You can be different in any way you desire, within the law.

Given that a great number of people will never accept gender reassignment as a genuine transition to the opposite sex, that particular strategy seems to centre around what you might reasonably call self-delusion.

It's a shame that people would do that to themselves, given that what they are getting is a crude approximation of the sexual organs of the opposite sex, without much of its intended function.

Admittedly it's hard for me to put myself in their shoes, but is this increasingly being used as a means to be gay without being gay? A way to ascribe attraction to the same sex as an indication of incompatibility with your own body, rather than your own preferences. Or a way to justify non-sexual preferences for traits usually associated with the opposite sex (as tho justification were even necessary).

Or, as mentioned, some kind of mental illness. A man might be convinced he'd feel happier if his arms were amputated, but what doctor would recommend surgery to remove healthy limbs without considering the mental health of the patient first?
 
Vonhelmet said:
I doubt it would get to an investigation of this kind of it were just parents out to cause trouble.
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You doubt, I think it's quite possible. This topic is a political powder keg at the moment and the moment there's a whiff of things reaching wider public notice, everything goes into panicked damage control mode. I'm sure you must have noticed such reactions in other scenarios. I know of a programmer who got FIRED for saying "I'd fork that" about a piece of code shown in a presentation. It was a mild comment to his colleague sitting next to him. A woman sitting behind them overheard, sent out a very public tweet complaining about sexist hostile atmosphere to the organizers and the two guys were ejected. And then, because she had a lot of followers and was something of a very vocal commentator in "Women in tech", he was fired.

For leaning over to their colleague and saying "I'd fork that" because they thought the code was really good.

By your "No smoke without fire" logic, there must have been very good reason for it. Even though we know there wasn't.

When people are looking to take offense as this woman was, or as this child's parents might be, it doesn't need a cause, it needs an excuse. And you know that to be true.
 
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