Brazilian Grand Prix 2011, Interlagos Circuit - Race 19/19
- Thread starter Duke
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Well said. I wonder how Vettel and Button would get on in the same team?
From an external point of view, RBR do look like the kind of team that would suite the Lewis Hamilton of old. More layed back, less corporate image, less pressure to grow up. I mean, their current front man looks (and acts) like a 12 year old kid 
Lets see how 2012 pans out. If the McLaren is poor at the start of the year again, and Lewis doesn't have a great year, I would not be at all surprised to see him leave McLaren at the end of 2012.
I don't think Vettel/Hamilton would be the nightmare pairing people think they would either. But also, so what if they are? Senna and Prost didn't get on, and that was such an exciting era they made a film about it!
Lets see how 2012 pans out. If the McLaren is poor at the start of the year again, and Lewis doesn't have a great year, I would not be at all surprised to see him leave McLaren at the end of 2012.
I don't think Vettel/Hamilton would be the nightmare pairing people think they would either. But also, so what if they are? Senna and Prost didn't get on, and that was such an exciting era they made a film about it!
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Soldato
I think that school of thought is coming from the multiple PR blunders RBR made in 2010 when Vettel and Webber were pretty evenly matched. This year it's been a much smoother ride for them as they've cleaned up, and Webber has been in no position to challenge.
Lets agree to disagree on that - I just dont think its coincidence. I accept its probable speculation on my part...
I see this completely differently, how can someone drive like LH did in the past when he was more successful and manage tyres/fuel etc? I think hes still that person rather than he actually changed, while confusingly you think he has changed, but needs to go back to how he drived before. I think for future success LH shouldnt be the driver he was, or is now but a complete paradigm shift..
I agree though on the point he needs to focus far more on his driving than what is happening in the world of F1 and more importantly ignoring the non-F1 distractions. McLarens attitude isnt that far removed from the other teams on the paddock, so in reality LH has to meld to them, rather than the other way round IMO (which I think theyve already done)...
I think RBR have done a very good PR exercise, but to think that underneath the covers they have a mentality that vastly differs from McLaren or Ferrari is naive. And though I know it wasnt your sentiment I dont think SV acts like a child, more that hes just very very relaxed at RBR, but considering what hes got there, who wouldnt be? Lifes so much more easy when things are going your way...From an external point of view, RBR do look like the kind of team that would suite the Lewis Hamilton of old. More layed back, less corporate image, less pressure to grow up. I mean, their current front man looks (and acts) like a 12 year old kid
EDIT: Im disappointed how badly worded my point above is - cba to change it though
ps3ud0
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Nah, I get what your saying. I didn't mean that Seb was running around asking for lollypops, more like you said, he is far more relaxed there than LH is at McLaren. And I think that is key.
Wether we agree or disagree about what has or hasn't changed or how he is or isn't driving, we both agree that he is not performing as well now as he was 3 or 4 years ago. And we both agree that things need to change to get him back on track.
I just hope that they (LH, McLaren, his dad, etc) realise that and make efforts to change things. They cannot continue the way they currently are.
Personally, I think getting his dad back as a manager, and moving to RBR would be good changes for him. But that's just my opinion.
Wether we agree or disagree about what has or hasn't changed or how he is or isn't driving, we both agree that he is not performing as well now as he was 3 or 4 years ago. And we both agree that things need to change to get him back on track.
I just hope that they (LH, McLaren, his dad, etc) realise that and make efforts to change things. They cannot continue the way they currently are.
Personally, I think getting his dad back as a manager, and moving to RBR would be good changes for him. But that's just my opinion.
Lewis is performing just the same, just he has not got the best car no more, to suggest he can walk into Red Bull if he feels like it is just silly as well IMO they don't need him as long as they have Vettel, even if Seb leaves they have their 100 young drivers waiting.
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Soldato
What rubbish.
Button has his father at every race. He has his girlfriend at every race. I believe he has a manager at some races, if not all.
Hamilton has his father in another pit garage at every race. His girlfriend was at some races. His management team never appears to be there.
So in fact Mclaren don't want someone without support, they want someone who has the full support of both his family and management team. Something Hamilton had when he won the championship.
Shock as people start missing the point just to have an argument for arguments sake about Hamilton.
At no point did I say McLaren wanted a lone ranger with no friends in the world. I said they want someone who can stand on his own 2 feet when needed. When was the last time Button made some flippant inappropriate comment to the press that had the McLaren PR scrabbling around to cover it off? Regardless of who he has around him, Button does not need his hand held or to be shielded from the wider world by other people.
Are you saying if Lewis put himself on the market, RBR wouldn't be interested in him?
I can guarantee that Lewis would be interested in RBR. I mean, where else could he go? The other top team is Ferrari and with Alonso there that's never going to happen. TBH, I can only ever see Lewis leaving McLaren if its to go to RBR.
Oh, and I never said he could 'just walk in' either...
At no point did I say McLaren wanted a lone ranger with no friends in the world. I said they want someone who can stand on his own 2 feet when needed. When was the last time Button made some flippant inappropriate comment to the press that had the McLaren PR scrabbling around to cover it off? Regardless of who he has around him, Button does not need his hand held or to be shielded from the wider world by other people.
Are you saying if Lewis put himself on the market, RBR wouldn't be interested in him?
I can guarantee that Lewis would be interested in RBR. I mean, where else could he go? The other top team is Ferrari and with Alonso there that's never going to happen. TBH, I can only ever see Lewis leaving McLaren if its to go to RBR.
Oh, and I never said he could 'just walk in' either...
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Soldato
But you can't possibly say that. At no point in the last few years that he has been at a top team has he not had any support behind him.
I have no idea what the support structure was like when he was at Williams or Honda, but I think even then he had his dad and manager there when things went wrong.
Plus no one said anyone is being shielded, or having their hand held, but having people around who can give moral support before things spiral out of control, it would never get to the point Hamilton was at a couple of races ago.
Was it not Lewis who said Red Bull were not a real racing team? why would he want to go there, unless it was just to get in the best car, much like Senna I guess Where else could he go? yeah cause Lewis could only ever go to a top 3 team......driving a midfield car would be way beneath him
Lewis could have the whole world around to support him, would not change a thing on track, it's just an easy excuse.
Where else could he go? yeah cause Lewis could only ever go to a top 3 team......driving a midfield car would be way beneath him Lewis could have the whole world around to support him, would not change a thing on track, it's just an easy excuse.
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I think Skeeter was referring more to what support the team would be required to give rather than the entourage the driver decides to have. LH requires far more time of McLaren (hes virtually man managed) to do the same job as JB - partly because as you said JB has that support network; LH had the same, but I wonder who ruin that for him?
As regards to the comments about where he would go post McLaren - I honestly dont think hes the commodity he once was, so a top team drive would never be a guarantee, not particularly because hes not a good driver, just the additional effort neded to get him into a team without disruption. RBR would be interested in him, but it wouldnt be the coup de grace people here think it would be...
ps3ud0
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McLaren don't operate a consistent engineer policy. They share engineers between drivers. I think there has been 3 different engineers for each driver this year?
Personally, I think that's stupid. Smedly/Massa are the perfect example of how to do a driver/engineer partnership properly.
I totally agree.
Button is clearly able to work with different people, but Hamilton is the sort who would benefit if he had a "big brother" type personality basically fighting in his corner, giving him advice on the radio (as well as off track).
I also recall a lot of drivers saying that their personal trainers provide a lot moral support - does Hamilton receive this?
I know that some people are saying that Hamilton isn't so great because he needs a good support network around him, but if this has to be done...it has to be done.
Personally, I think Hamilton NEEDS the entire team to be focussed around him. Just like when he had Heikki as team-mate. Even when he had Alonso as team-mate, he was seen as Ron's surrogate son, so he would've felt that the whole team were on his side. Right now, with Button muscling on his territory, I don't think he is feeling the love any more.
RBR certainly dont need Hamilton. But as a marketing manager, it would be a mouth watering prospect to have 2 top line drivers, grabbing the headlines in every single race. To be able to approach sponsors and say, "we have Hamilton and Vettel in our team - the 2 greatest young drivers of all time." To rake in more money in sponsorship would not be difficult.
For spectators, Hamilton vs Vettel (in identical machinery) - this will be absolutely fantastic. Commercially, it makes a whole lot of sense.
Given though, that MW and Vettel have now won 2 WCC titles in a row, common sense would dictate that they should keep MW.
Button is mentally tougher. He is older as well. You can't compare Button with Hamilton.
Jenson seemed to cope as a youngster, Lewis is 26 for goodness sake he is not 16.
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