Brazilian Grand Prix 2011, Interlagos Circuit - Race 19/19

What the hell does that have to do with Alonso holding Lewis up in the pit lane for no reason?

My head hurts....

You said Alonso played games and cost Lewis the title in 2007, I asked what games, you I assume mentioned Hungary, which did not cost Lewis anything. Lewis was held up on the pitlane because he held up Alonso earlier in the session and ignored the team to let him pass, did he not tell Ron to go swivvel :D so they both played games that day, you could say it cost Alonso the title rather than Lewis :)
 
And if the conspiracies are to be believed the tyre/gravel trap incident at China, along with the mysterious gearbox issue at Brazil, were staged as part of the £100mil Max Mosley dictated penalty.

LOL, Max wanted the drivers DQ as well, only Bernie pleading stopped it.
 
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If these guys can make up, there's no reason you lot can't get on. :p
 
What you recon Nuts, 2 additional sets that have to be handed back after qualifying, and the removal of the start on the tyres you qualify on rule? Would that sort it and stop people saving tyres?

I think just let the teams build the fastest car possible but, i would :D

The current tyres could be better and having teams getting into the top10 shootout only to sit in their garage is crazy. If the tyres really are that flakey, something clearly needs changing.
 
. As I understand it Pirelli are getting ready for this possibility by producing a more grippery compound next year which will lead to an even shorter life expectancy. I await the moans :p

Well they won't win a tyre war producing a tyre with less life expectancy. They will need to build a tyre as fast that lasts 40 laps. I don't get that they are building what you suggest because they increased the wear rate artificially.

They could quite easily build a tyre with more grip that lasts longer but that isn't what is required of them :(
 
Well they won't win a tyre war producing a tyre with less life expectancy. They will need to build a tyre as fast that lasts 40 laps. I don't get that they are building what you suggest because they increased the wear rate artificially.

They could quite easily build a tyre with more grip that lasts longer but that isn't what is required of them :(

Didnt the guy from Pirelli say on Sunday's forum that next year's medium tyre is more equivelant to this season's soft?

(I think its standard to expect the softer the compound to be grippier but to last fewer laps)

I dont know whether wear rate is increased artificially though (after all the tyres are designed ONLY for f1 cars.... so there isnt another direct comparision if you see what I mean)

I LOVE the way Pirelli are going, and hope there isnt a tyre war in a couple of years - they deserve a medium length F1 contract (5 years or so) imo - so they dont get too complacent while giving them a reasonable time frame at the same time
 
Well they won't win a tyre war producing a tyre with less life expectancy. They will need to build a tyre as fast that lasts 40 laps. I don't get that they are building what you suggest because they increased the wear rate artificially.

They could quite easily build a tyre with more grip that lasts longer but that isn't what is required of them :(
As I said Im only reporting what Pirelli said and I agree it sounds counter-productive which is why I was questioning where this request has come from and how it would transfer to a good start before the tyre war materialises...

Perhaps I misheard what was said in the F1 Forum, but I got the general impression they are looking to make tyres not last as long as this season - Ill check it later...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
As I said Im only reporting what Pirelli said and I agree it sounds counter-productive which is why I was questioning where this request has come from and how it would transfer to a good start before the tyre war materialises...

Perhaps I misheard what was said in the F1 Forum, but I got the general impression they are looking to make tyres not last as long as this season - Ill check it later...

ps3ud0 :cool:

same impression I got from the forum

I see that its a conflict of interest in a sense given general population want tyres to last as long as possible - but surely general population would also have to be pretty stupid to think F1 cars are using standard tyres......:D

(ie different tyres for different circumstances - just because one is designed to fall apart after 100 miles or whatever has no reference to how long their road car tyre will last :))
 
I think that prompted Eddie or maybe Jake to say that line on the F1 Forum I thought, I do feel sorry for Pirelli out of all the manufacturers involved in F1 as they are one of the very few (I guess?) that are producing a product/technology that the normal viewer cannot appreciate dripping down into the populace as they think its counter-intuitive...

Even seasoned viewers like us, get that initial impression, its quite hard not to...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Well they won't win a tyre war producing a tyre with less life expectancy. They will need to build a tyre as fast that lasts 40 laps. I don't get that they are building what you suggest because they increased the wear rate artificially.

They could quite easily build a tyre with more grip that lasts longer but that isn't what is required of them :(

I certainly don't want a return to Bridgestone style tyres which last the whole race. Having a tyre war would only lead to some teams getting a significant advantage, like Ferrari did in the early 2000's.

Didnt the guy from Pirelli say on Sunday's forum that next year's medium tyre is more equivelant to this season's soft?

This years soft tyre IS going to be next years medium tyre. They are developing a new softer compound for next year which will both be quicker and not last as long. Good news :cool:. Hopefully the Q3 problem gets resolved too.

Perhaps I misheard what was said in the F1 Forum, but I got the general impression they are looking to make tyres not last as long as this season - Ill check it later...

Correct.
 
I stopped reading there...He never used to have to look after tires or fuel(untill the new rules).

Did you forget that they used Bridgestones tires and would last most of a race?
so that meant Lewis(same as Alonso) could push a car to the edge and beyond.
Now it's not about racing anymore it's about looking after tires. So when Lewis and Alonso get a crap car they can't push it like they used to.

Pirelli tires= Look After your tires after lap 3
BridgeStone= GO GO GO
Lewis and Alonso are the two best racing drivers on the grid.

It's very sad this is what F1 has become, it used to be about speed and be the pinnacle of racing and now it's just a glorified fuel/tyre management exercise.

Drivers cannot push beyond the limit of the tyres which means they can't get the most out of their car, those like Button who are not the fastest are able to do well because they can better manage the tyres. Vettel qualifies on pole with his magic Q3 boost button and then cruises to the end of each race knowing that anyone who pushes to catch him will destroy theirs and 'drop off the cliff' as it is known.

It's not racing anymore it's simply a sport with fast cars, a few gimmicks and lots of pervasive (often anti-racing) rules that a driver must adhere to to succeed.
 
With regards to Button - don't hate the player....hate the game. He is just making best use of the rules and equipment.

Vettel is in exactly the same position.

Now, if Hamilton is clever (which he isn't), he will get out of McLaren and either join a team who can provide him with a winning car OR move to a team who are prepared to pander to his every wish and base the entire team around him. The longer he stays at McLaren, the longer he will go without winning titles. Button will continue to take points away from him and even if McLaren produce the best car, my guess is that we will see a repeat of 2007, where both drivers will finish behind the eventual champion. McLaren are absolutely useless at team strategies and I hope that Hamilton realises this. Hamilton's best years were when he had no competition from his own team-mate.

Alonso was clever, in that he moved to Ferrari - a team which have the resources to build a great car and base the entire team around him (which he needs, if he is to win the title).

Vettel also has the same setup at RBR.

With regards to F1 not being the pinnacle...it still is. The technology used in F1 is unbelievable and unlike any other motor sport.

If you go back over the years, there has always been tyre and car management. I remember famously (I think it was in 1987), where Mansell, at Silverstone, turned his car into junk. He drove so hard and was repeatedly warned by his radio man (just as Vettel was warned in the last race) that if he continues, he will not finish the race. Mansell, ignored this, chased down Nelson Piquet (I think it was) and won the race.

I agree that tyre management is even more important now...but that's part of modern F1. Times change and so does the way in which the sport is played.

Just as Button showed in Canada, when you drive balls to the wall, you can still win...driving conservatively is not a necessity. Hamilton is a balls to the wall driver - his problem this year was not his tyre management, but his collision rate. In my time watching F1, I have never seen a top line driver, have so many collisions. The fact that he finished in the top 5 after so many collisions is actually quite impressive.

If you go back 10 years, it was processional racing and there were many complaints that the same driver always wins and nobody is able to overtake...well, I believe we have just had a (2011) season with more overtakes than any recent season. The big problem this year was the Vettel (who some might argue drove better than any other driver) also had the best car. Take him out of the equation and you are left with a VERY exciting and close season for racing, with many overtakes.
 
Where is there for Hamilton to go? Ferrari have Alonso, Mercedes have their own queue of drivers. The only seat I can see becoming available for him in the next few years in a top team is Mark Webbers.

Completely agree about the McLaren strategy thing. How can a company with so many people dedicated to race strategy continually make stupid strategy calls. For as long as I can remember I've been going "Wtf???" At some of their decisions.
 
Just as Button showed in Canada, when you drive balls to the wall, you can still win...driving conservatively is not a necessity. Hamilton is a balls to the wall driver - his problem this year was not his tyre management, but his collision rate. In my time watching F1, I have never seen a top line driver, have so many collisions. The fact that he finished in the top 5 after so many collisions is actually quite impressive.
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Surely thats a bad comparison as Canada was a fully wet race - where tyre wear would be minimalised (admittedly it was drying at the end of the race, but still damp) - Hamilton still wants to do "balls to the wall" in the dry , where (imo) it just wont work any more for the most part.

LH is great at the start of a race, he can be right on it from the word go (where as JB eases the tyres in more gently over the first few laps) but then Lewis pays for it during the latter parts of each stint where he loses lots of time and JB blitzes him completely

Just remember the performance differences between the front three and everyone else (and the points differences these days). And baring in mind Massa's average performances, Lewis was only ever going to be in the top 5 (even given his crashes etc). One win after all is more ponts than majority of the rest of the grid get all year (one win would get 14th, 3 wins gets 8th in final standings give or take a point lol)
 
Worst thing hamilton can do is go chasing a winning car. Look at alonso after mclaren he has spent 4 years not doing much. Yes he nearly won it in 2010 but that was more due to red bull trying their hardest to throw away the tittle.
 
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