Brazilian Grand Prix 2011, Interlagos Circuit - Race 19/19

elmuzzy66. said:
Worst thing hamilton can do is go chasing a winning car. Look at alonso after mclaren he has spent 4 years not doing much. Yes he nearly won it in 2010 but that was more due to red bull trying their hardest to throw away the tittle.
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It's the luck of the draw.

Sometimes, you chase a winning car and it works out great.
Other times, you move teams and you find things are not as rosey you expected.

While at McLaren, alongside Button, do you honestly believe he can win the title?
 
sunama said:
While at McLaren, alongside Button, do you honestly believe he can win the title?
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Thats not really a straight question.

Do I think Hamilton can beat Button, yes.

Will he also be able to beat Seb in a fast Red Bull, or even Alonso if Ferrari get their act together... that's another thing entirely.

Actually, I would imagine that Button winning the title would be pretty harsh on Hamilton. So how about this for 'mystical crystal ball' prediction:

In 2012, Button wins the title at McLaren, beating Hamilton, and Hamilton admits that McLaren may not be the best place for him. Webber retires gracefully after a good season (equal with Seb, 2nd or 3rd in the Championship maybe), leaving a seat free at Red Bull. Red Bull sign Hamilton for 2013, alongside Seb. McLaren sign a british GP2 driver to sit alongside Button.
In 2013 we see Seb and Hamilton having a Prost/Senna spat, but still performing great on track, while Button and Alonso are also in the mix. We end up with a 4 way fight for the championship, with none of the drivers really liking each other, and determined to beat each other at any cost. We even see a deliberate 'crash' or 2...

Now THAT, I would pay to see.

[/dream land]
 
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Button winning the title next year...beating RBR and Ferrari :eek:

The problem at McLaren is that Button and Hamilton will continually take points off of eachother, so even if they have the best car (like in 2007), there is a good chance that the lead driver from the 2nd best car will end up winning the title (just like in 2007).
 
Yeah, its dream land I know. But if you look at the 2 driver right now you would have to say Button looks more likely to take the challenge to RBR next year than Hamilton.

But, who knows, its all pie in the sky, Renault could produce a stonker and Kimi could win the title.
 
Indeed. Before this year, I would've had no hestitation in asking Button to move over to allow Hamilton to maximise his points. However, after this season, there is no way a team principal could ask Button to move over for Hamilton, as he has now shown that he is able to compete head to head with Hamilton.

This is why I'm saying that both drivers are going to take points away from eachother. Vettel and Alonso, meanwhile, can race with the assurance that if asked, their No.2 drivers will move over.

For a McLaren driver to win the title, McLaren, will have to produce a car that is so far ahead of the rest, that their 2 drivers end up in 1-2 positions for most of the races. This is why I believe that while he is at McLaren, Hamilton's career will go nowhere.
 
From the position we are in at the moment, I would agree.

However, we could see a Webber/Vettel style change in performance next year that sees Hamilton destroy Button that pushes him into a number 1 position by default.

We might also see some pigs flying across the track :)
 
McLaren will have no problem in telling either of them to move if needed, as they have done countless times in the past, I love how they have created a myth of no team orders we let them race.
 
Hehehe.

If anything Vettel might improve a little more. He is the youngster after all, still gaining in experience.

I believe bookies have Vettel as favourite to win next year's title (3 in a row). This time next year, Vettel, at the age of 26(?), will be amongst the all-time greats.
 
Mr Men said:
McLaren will have no problem in telling either of them to move if needed, as they have done countless times in the past, I love how they have created a myth of no team orders we let them race.
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I agree that if there is one outstanding driver, they will of course ask 1 driver to move over. McLaren have done this in the past. However, as we are seeing now, with Button and Hamilton so evenly matched, how are they going to tell either driver to move over?

When was the last time that we saw McLaren issue a team order to move over, when both drivers were so evenly matched?

I remember Hamilton was told not to challenge Alonso, at Monaco 2007...but at that time, Hamilton was the rookie. Alonso was the start (reigning champ) and at no stage did they ask a driver to "move over".

We may have to go back to the Hakkinen days...some 10 years ago.
 
sunama said:
I agree that if there is one outstanding driver, they will of course ask 1 driver to move over. McLaren have done this in the past. However, as we are seeing now, with Button and Hamilton so evenly matched, how are they going to tell either driver to move over?

When was the last time that we saw McLaren issue a team order to move over, when both drivers were so evenly matched?

I remember Hamilton was told not to challenge Alonso, at Monaco 2007...but at that time, Hamilton was the rookie. Alonso was the start (reigning champ) and at no stage did they ask a driver to "move over".

We may have to go back to the Hakkinen days...some 10 years ago.
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Jenson was told to back off in Turkey last year, bad boy overtaking Lewis :D
 
Hang on a minute. This was the race when Hamilton was told he should start driving slower to conserve fuel/car etc.
Hamilton then asked that if he did this would Button challenge him.
He was told that Button would not overtake.

Hamilton then slowed down and Button overtook.
Hamilton then went back into racing mode and overtook Button.

Button was then told to "conserve fuel".

I remember this.

At no stage was one driver asked to "move over".
 
That was the story yes, we only heard Jenson being told to back off IIRC :) Being told you are not allowed to pass is basically the same as being told to move over, they are not allowed to beat the guy ahead for the team benefit.

Much like when Webber and Seb tangled, same story spun....
 
What sunama said.

I genuinely cannot remember McLaren asking a driver to move over for another in my memory of F1.

Telling one driver to let another past for the benefit of the guy behind is very different to telling your drivers to stay as they are to avoid them taking each other off.
 
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