Soldato
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Yikes, that video is pretty clear cut. I can only guess the comment about the car he went by slowing down too much was the reason he got away with that. Shocking really.
Brazilian Grand Prix 2012, São Paulo - Race 20/20
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Soldato
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sorry for the possibly dumb question but what was the 2nd penalty for? i thought someone had shown that his overtake on Kamui was under the red/yellow flag for a wet track
The HRTs also jumped out of his way like a scalded cat, so its not like its just the Toro Rossos doing it.
Soldato
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the HRTs jump out of everyones way so that isnt exactly a fair comparison. the only reason they didnt jump out of vettels way in america is because there was nowhere to go except off track
Yep very true.
So whats the case that people are making? That cars getting out of other cars ways is wrong, or just cars of teams related getting out of each others way is wrong?
If you are going to penalise Toro Rosso for getting out of Red Bulls way then surely you would penalised HRT for every overtake too?
The better way about it would be to look at it the opposite way, and pick up on incidents of slowers car not letting a car behind them through. But then... isn't one car trying not to let another one past called 'racing', and the whole reason we all tune in on a Sunday afternoon?
As I have said before, where do you draw the line? Schumacher letting Vettel past was bad because... well, I dunno, why do people think that was bad? Toro Rossos letting Vettel past is bad because Red Bull own both teams. Webber letting Vettel past is ok because its his team mate. And HRTs letting Vettel past is perfectly acceptable and expected.
It would be difficult to apply a rule based on team ownership and wether you think it was bad or just expected, would it not? I get what people are saying, it wasn't very sporting for Schumacher to let him past, but how far down the grid do you go before letting someone past goes from being something that should be penalised to something that is expected?
If you are going to penalise Toro Rosso for getting out of Red Bulls way then surely you would penalised HRT for every overtake too?
The better way about it would be to look at it the opposite way, and pick up on incidents of slowers car not letting a car behind them through. But then... isn't one car trying not to let another one past called 'racing', and the whole reason we all tune in on a Sunday afternoon?
As I have said before, where do you draw the line? Schumacher letting Vettel past was bad because... well, I dunno, why do people think that was bad? Toro Rossos letting Vettel past is bad because Red Bull own both teams. Webber letting Vettel past is ok because its his team mate. And HRTs letting Vettel past is perfectly acceptable and expected.
It would be difficult to apply a rule based on team ownership and wether you think it was bad or just expected, would it not? I get what people are saying, it wasn't very sporting for Schumacher to let him past, but how far down the grid do you go before letting someone past goes from being something that should be penalised to something that is expected?
Another reason for me to dislike Vettel.
The following is from an interview with Kai Ebel on RTL German TV after the race Sunday.
interviewer"..and then comes the nephew of Aryton Senna, and here in brazil crashes in the back of your car, what did you think at that moment?"
Vettel: (smiles) "Well let's see, the grave of Ayrton Senna is here in Sau Paulo, at the gaveyard in Murumbi.One has to go there and tell him what his nephew did today. which did not help us ..."
This reaffirms his snobbish attitude to back markers and slower cars. Do one Seb, they're allowed to race just as much as you.
The following is from an interview with Kai Ebel on RTL German TV after the race Sunday.
interviewer"..and then comes the nephew of Aryton Senna, and here in brazil crashes in the back of your car, what did you think at that moment?"
Vettel: (smiles) "Well let's see, the grave of Ayrton Senna is here in Sau Paulo, at the gaveyard in Murumbi.One has to go there and tell him what his nephew did today. which did not help us ..."
This reaffirms his snobbish attitude to back markers and slower cars. Do one Seb, they're allowed to race just as much as you.
In my opinion, he should have had a penalty for his collision with Senna. The way he just suddenly turns in at a 90 degree angle and blindsides Senna was dangerous in my opinion.
So putting this another way - you would think nothing wrong with (for example) an Eastern European athlete allowing a Russian competitor to beat them in the 200m event of the Heptathlon to deprive a 3rd athlete of Olympic Gold?
Its one thing if Schumi wasnt in a points position, but given that he was (and not in any team relevant to RBR), I cant see what is RIGHT about what MS did.
As stated earlier, nothing the FIA can do about it (and maybe it made little difference to Mercedes) but given his poor performces for the last three years to give away points like that , I would be surprised if it wasnt in his Merc contract.
he was 2 seconds a lap slower.
vettel would win the championship even if he didnt pass msc.
I dont know why people keep making out that if it wasnt for that pass alonso would win the wdc
What would be in his contract? (Dons Frank conspiracy theory tin foil hat 
)
Anyway, I know what your saying, it wasn't very sporting, and I can understand why people feel a bit peeved by it. But in response to those in here saying it should be against the rules, I dont see how you could regulate against it?
)Anyway, I know what your saying, it wasn't very sporting, and I can understand why people feel a bit peeved by it. But in response to those in here saying it should be against the rules, I dont see how you could regulate against it?
Duke and friend are good at ignoring the actual real issue of Torro Rosso moving over and have done for many seasons, instead will focus on one move by Schumacher as it's more troll worthy
Soldato
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oh yeah. i was so busy looking for tiny mistakes that slipped past the FIA that i forgot the blindingly obvious one of causing an avoidable collision
I didn't say anything of the sort, just that MS in particular did it in an obvious way (he would have passed him easily any way). The TR drivers at least make it less obvious
Also lol at this gif
I think the pertinant point in the difference between the Toro Rosso's moving over vs HRTs is that the moments we are talking about were for position, not lapping. (At least in Brazil, not sure about Abu Dhabi)
Giving up a racing position with absolutely no effort to a sister team is a whole different ballgame to being lapped by an unrelated team.
Giving up a racing position with absolutely no effort to a sister team is a whole different ballgame to being lapped by an unrelated team.
What would be in his contract? (Dons Frank conspiracy theory tin foil hat
1) Its not a "conspiracy"
2) You dont think Mercedes would be annoyed at one of their drivers giving away points to a rival team , which therefore could affect their income for the next season?
If MS was a back marker, he would be expected to do this.
If MS was out of the points, possibly frowned upon but at the end of the day makes no difference.
Giving away championship points to a rival
(even without considering the general "SPORTING" - implication of requirement to actually compete for every place - aspect)
TR is a completely different ball game. At the end of the day the FIA cant stop a company sponsoring 2 teams if they so wish (and in fant I bet the FIA actually love it, as it fills up the grid a little more). The fact that one team is owned, and the other is "simply" sponsored is neither here nor there. TR give way to RBR, and for a time they gave places away to their engine supplier's main team as well.
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The HRTs both jumped out of the way on lap 2 after Sebs spin. They were passes for position.