Poll: Brazilian Grand Prix 2021, São Paulo - Race 19

[Pigeon_Killer]

We'll never know, but the decisions last weekend did seem unusual.

I was trying to find a list of all driver penalties for this season and before but can only find penalty points. Happy to be proven wrong, and I appreciate this forum is heavily pro Hamilton, but I can't recall him being treated any different to the other drivers during his time in F1. Having said that, I also can't recall the FIA being consistent with their decisions, nor favouring one driver or team over another, since the days of Schumacher and Ferrari.

 

[Slam62]

I was trying to find a list of all driver penalties for this season and before but can only find penalty points. Happy to be proven wrong, and I appreciate this forum is heavily pro Hamilton, but I can't recall him being treated any different to the other drivers during his time in F1. Having said that, I also can't recall the FIA being consistent with their decisions, nor favouring one driver or team over another, since the days of Schumacher and Ferrari.

Yes I don't think they've been particularly heavy on him, until this weekend which seemed bizarre. Tbh they always seem to go in daft decision mode when the championship is tight.
The other side of the conspiracy theory coin is would you predict Lewis winning that race after qualifying?

 

[chrcoluk]

I don't think it's down to Hamilton being half black. It's about Hamilton and Mercedes dominating the wins and championships. The FIA think that by making the race results closer and mixed between teams, then F1 becomes more exciting for consumers to watch. The FIA don't want people to look back and see Mercedes and Hamilton winning year after year.

Ironically, the FIA always change the rules just as all the teams catch up after a period of stability, ensuring that only the biggest teams with the most resources can adjust to those rules quickly. This way the dominance of a new set of rules will always favour big teams, especially with the lack of in season development.

I can agree with this, also the SC's.

When Merc are in the lead with a gap, a VSC incident gets promoted to a SC to close up the pack for excitement, I remember Lewis getting on the radio once to call it out.

VSC is supposed to be for when cars are been recovered off track, and SC when they need to get on or close to the track, but it started happening they would call out a SC, they wouldnt even wait for the cars to bunch up so they still would be people doing the clearing up anyway, it was obvoius the SC was been used to make it more likely Merc got overtaken, this practice has suddenly stopped in races when Red Bull are leading.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Of the 11 safety cars deployed this season, 12 if you include starting the Belgian GP behind the SC, Verstappen was in the lead during 7 of them, Perez, Bottas and Hamilton for 1 with the other coming at the Italian GP when Verstappen and Hamilton collided. Anyone looking at that could easily argue the FIA are trying to make it more likely that Red Bull get overtaken not Mercedes.

 

[Steampunk]

Like with Brawn? But yeah I get your point.

Merc or Ferrari next season for me.

Brawn was an anomaly because they found a very valuable loophole in the rules for the double-diffuser. Those technical loopholes that give massive advantage are few and far between nowadays, because the rules are locked down so much more than they used to be.

Everyone is trying to build a better version of the same technology, it's rare we see something revolutionary that gives a big advantage.

 

[Mr Jack]

Ironically, the FIA always change the rules just as all the teams catch up after a period of stability, ensuring that only the biggest teams with the most resources can adjust to those rules quickly. This way the dominance of a new set of rules will always favour big teams, especially with the lack of in season development.

It's true that rules changes usually increase the differential between teams; but it also rolls the dice. More often than not, someone new rises to the top. Brawn were exceptional, but changes are the norm. Don't be surprised if the likes of Ferrari, McLaren, Alpine or AstonMartin rock up with the best car in Australia.

 

[jaybee]

I think on the subject of safety cars and virtual safety cars, they are over deployed in my personal opinion. Nobody wants a marshall to get hit of course and yes...safety. The frustration is sometimes just how long it takes in 2021 to lift an F1 car over the barrier or off the track. I'm not sure how we can improve there but the virtual safety car does not do what it's supposed to do. It does not "neutralise the race" as the commentators like to call it. It gives lottery free/cheap pit stops and the time gaps never tend to stay the same. You tend to get losers and winners with the deltas which I don't truly understand how it happens but guess it must be pot luck as to the timing of when the green light drops, your reaction time and what part of the track you happen to be on.
I just dislike the luck of it all. Same with the fastest lap farce.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Luck is an integral part of sport.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

[JRS]

They never wanted Hamilton to win the title.

They have done soo much to try and stop Hamilton from winning titles.

I remember after he won his first title, the following season they made a rule where 1st place gets like 20 extra points in the last race LOL and that was purely because Hamilton won the title by finishing 5th or 4th was it vs massa finishing 1st and being beaten by a point or two?

FIA simply hate Hamilton and so do other people and I don’t think its because of the way he dresses.. i wont say why i think of the reason for fear of stirring something here but you can all guess it really easily anyway..

D'you want to maybe fact-check that outright crap before you post it?

Hamilton won his first title in 2008. The one and only race that counted for double points status was the 2014 Abu Dhabi GP. Now, I ain't never claimed to be no genius but even I can work out that 2014 was several years after 2008.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I was trying to find a list of all driver penalties for this season and before but can only find penalty points. Happy to be proven wrong, and I appreciate this forum is heavily pro Hamilton, but I can't recall him being treated any different to the other drivers during his time in F1. Having said that, I also can't recall the FIA being consistent with their decisions, nor favouring one driver or team over another, since the days of Schumacher and Ferrari.

I wouldn’t say they’ve been any harsher to him than other drivers but one of the biggest examples of BS decisions has to be Spa 2008.

He overtook Raikonnen but went off track and in re-joining the track he came back ahead. Hamilton then let Kimi overtake but re-passed him at the next corner.

FIA awarded him a 25s time penalty after the race demoting him to 3rd.

 

[JRS]

I wouldn’t say they’ve been any harsher to him than other drivers but one of the biggest examples of BS decisions has to be Spa 2008.

But on the plus side at least the OcUK Hamilton Fan Club™ took that in their stride and haven't let it fester in their collective minds for ~13 ye-OH WAIT.

 

[jonneymendoza]

D'you want to maybe fact-check that outright crap before you post it?

Hamilton won his first title in 2008. The one and only race that counted for double points status was the 2014 Abu Dhabi GP. Now, I ain't never claimed to be no genius but even I can work out that 2014 was several years after 2008.

Are you certain about that?

I remember to the points rule changing after Hamilton won his first title

 

[Flibster]

I wouldn’t say they’ve been any harsher to him than other drivers but one of the biggest examples of BS decisions has to be Spa 2008.

He overtook Raikonnen but went off track and in re-joining the track he came back ahead. Hamilton then let Kimi overtake but re-passed him at the next corner.

FIA awarded him a 25s time penalty after the race demoting him to 3rd.

For breaking a rule that didn't exist as well... Gave the place back, was slower over the line, was further away... but naah, didn't wait a corner before trying to overtake again. So 25s drive through penalty.

But awarding the win to someone who who was basically nowhere throughout the race as Raikkonen crashed out is particularly irritating.

 

[JRS]

Are you certain about that?

I remember to the points rule changing after Hamilton won his first title

Nope. Was still 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for 2009.

 

[Flibster]

Are you certain about that?

I remember to the points rule changing after Hamilton won his first title

2003-2009 points:
10 8 6 5 4 3 2 1

2010-current points:
25 18 15 12 10 8 6 4 2 1

 

[jonneymendoza]

2003-2009 points:
10 8 6 5 4 3 2 1

2010-current points:
25 18 15 12 10 8 6 4 2 1[/QUO

Nope. Was still 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for 2009.
Yous aid in 2014 though....

Im more closer to being right then you. Not exactly a year after he won the title, but the following year the points system changed to make sure first place has a larger points gap then 2nd

 

[JRS]

Im more closer to being right then you.

...

Quick check of the tapes here.

I remember after he won his first title, the following season they made a rule where 1st place gets like 20 extra points in the last race LOL

Hamilton won his first title in 2008. The one and only race that counted for double points status was the 2014 Abu Dhabi GP.

You were talking about the last race of the season counting for more points. That happened once, in 2014.

As I stated.

The points systems used in 2008 and 2009 were identical.

So this...

Im more closer to being right then you.

...might be about the most @deuse thing anyone other than @deuse has ever posted.

 

[Flibster]

Im more closer to being right then you. Not exactly a year after he won the title, but the following year the points system changed to make sure first place has a larger points gap then 2nd

Stop digging.

They changed the points system to give more points to the lower positions. They were debating giving points down to 20th place iirc.
The 2014 points system with the double points at the final race was an invention by Bernie (oh.. joy...) to try and make the final race more important and more likely to settle the championship. To show how well it worked, it was scrapped after only 1 race - where Hamilton won his 2nd championship.

 

[JRS]

Stop digging.

No, leave jonney to it. I'm fascinated to see where this mineshaft leads. I haven't seen such a fact-blind run since deuse's wild claims about MotoGP lap records.

 

[this_is_gav]

Yes I don't think they've been particularly heavy on him, until this weekend which seemed bizarre. Tbh they always seem to go in daft decision mode when the championship is tight.

Assuming your first part refers to Hamilton then where was the daft decision? If it was his DSQ from qualifying then the car failed scrutineering. It can and does happen in any motor-racing series across the world. It doesn't matter whether it was by 0.2mm or 0.2m, either it was legal after qualifying or it wasn't. Merc's "defence" was Verstappen may or may not have touched the wing.

If there was any conspiracy against Mercedes or Hamilton, they'd have "failed it" for the race, not when zero points are awarded.

This sport really brings out the nut jobs sometimes (not necessarily aimed at Slam but the thread in general).

Granted the turn 4 incident was probably wrong and a smart Red Bull probably would have let Hamilton through, but it's not like he turned towards Hamilton. And Hamilton did the same to Verstappen (though not as brazen) at COTA without it even being noted - most seem to have conveniently forgotten that in the fog of war though.