Undemocratic liberals.
Brexit thread - what happens next
- Thread starter Gilly
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Undemocratic liberals.
So a manifesto pledge to ignore the will of the majority?
If he doesn't get the vote of no confidence he aspires to then what?
Application to the EU, cap in hand?
Could be interesting, will they pick up more votes from disgruntled remain voters or lose more votes for contempt of the electorate? Surely voters must see the inherent issues in giving a party the thumbs up to ignore the electorate, even if they are displeased with a given result?
Will they also change their party name? Liberal Democratsifyouagreewithus
I'm not sure it is contempt for the electorate. They could only make good on their pledge if they won a majority of seats in the house of commons (or shared a majority with a like-minded party), which would signify a shift in the will of the electorate.
It's not like anyone who supports Leave is going to vote Lib Dem now. They won't be winning seats on false pretences; the pledge is quite clear. They are making a potential mess for themselves in the event of a hung parliament though - they'd have to refuse to form a government with any party not willing to ignore the referendum result. Assuming the SNP follow suit, Labour are in a catch 22.
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Soldato
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Junkistadores!
Essentially what's happened here is that the turkeys have voted for Christmas. The leave campaign did an excellent job on playing on peoples emotions and fears, both real and imaginery, and now those people will suffer.
The results won't be overnight, but if you look at some of the foreign news sites, especially the US and Japanese ones, you'll see that many large companies are looking at pulling investment out of the UK. Not just the city of London ones, but also the big manufacturers such as Caterpillar and Ford. It's obviously carefully worded, as no employer is going to come out to the press and state categorically that they are going to shed jobs at this early stage, but the intention is clear. Japan have a huge manufacturing base here, employing over 150K people. Nissan (ironically in sunderland) will probably shift new models to europe where they already have plants. Hitachi, Fujitsu and Mitsubishi have said that it's vital that the UK has access to the single market, something that seems unacceptable to Brexit as it will come with free movement of people.
Then we have the city of London, which at the moment looks to be set to lose a shed load of jobs (100K mentioned in tomorrow headlines but thats probably exaggerated) which will be moved to Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt. Now, I'm sure Brexiters have little love for the city, but there's no doubt it's a massive part of the economy.
So, with foreign investment reducing, or at the very least completely stagnant until trade deals are sorted, which will be years away, we're heading for a recession, the size of which is yet to be seen.
...and we voted for all this voluntarily to stop immigration (which won't stop anytime soon as anyone thinking of migrating to the uk in the next 10 years will now be doing so in the next 2) and stop paying the EU less than 1% of our GDP.
Now, if someone wants to explain how at least 2 years of uncertainty is going to lead to anything other than economic contraction I'm all ears.
Still, at least we 'got our country back'...whatever the **** that means.
Oh, and to top it all off we're more than likely going to have a wild blond haired man-child as our Prime Minister.
The results won't be overnight, but if you look at some of the foreign news sites, especially the US and Japanese ones, you'll see that many large companies are looking at pulling investment out of the UK. Not just the city of London ones, but also the big manufacturers such as Caterpillar and Ford. It's obviously carefully worded, as no employer is going to come out to the press and state categorically that they are going to shed jobs at this early stage, but the intention is clear. Japan have a huge manufacturing base here, employing over 150K people. Nissan (ironically in sunderland) will probably shift new models to europe where they already have plants. Hitachi, Fujitsu and Mitsubishi have said that it's vital that the UK has access to the single market, something that seems unacceptable to Brexit as it will come with free movement of people.
Then we have the city of London, which at the moment looks to be set to lose a shed load of jobs (100K mentioned in tomorrow headlines but thats probably exaggerated) which will be moved to Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt. Now, I'm sure Brexiters have little love for the city, but there's no doubt it's a massive part of the economy.
So, with foreign investment reducing, or at the very least completely stagnant until trade deals are sorted, which will be years away, we're heading for a recession, the size of which is yet to be seen.
...and we voted for all this voluntarily to stop immigration (which won't stop anytime soon as anyone thinking of migrating to the uk in the next 10 years will now be doing so in the next 2) and stop paying the EU less than 1% of our GDP.
Now, if someone wants to explain how at least 2 years of uncertainty is going to lead to anything other than economic contraction I'm all ears.
Still, at least we 'got our country back'...whatever the **** that means.
Oh, and to top it all off we're more than likely going to have a wild blond haired man-child as our Prime Minister.
Soldato
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That and Prostitution are now included in our calculation of GDP so if true he is doing his bit. 
So, apart rom my holidays, or food purchases?!
A government back in '92 that decided to hand over more power to a unelected elite than was thought possible. Regardless if you voted for that government, you certainly didn't vote for that.
A decision such as that required a vote.
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/hilary-benn-revolt-jeremy-corbyn
Jeremy Corbyn sacked Hilary Benn in the early hours of Sunday morning after the Observer revealed that the shadow foreign secretary was preparing to lead a coup against the Labour leader.
It is understood that Benn had called fellow MPs over the weekend to suggest that he would ask Corbyn to stand down if there was significant support for a move against him. He had also asked shadow cabinet colleagues to join him in resigning if Corbyn ignored that request. A spokesman for Benn declined to comment.
Corbyn informed Benn, the son of his former mentor, Tony Benn, at 1am on Sunday that he was sacking him because he had lost the Labour leader’s trust, a spokesman said.
Jeremy Corbyn sacked Hilary Benn in the early hours of Sunday morning after the Observer revealed that the shadow foreign secretary was preparing to lead a coup against the Labour leader.
It is understood that Benn had called fellow MPs over the weekend to suggest that he would ask Corbyn to stand down if there was significant support for a move against him. He had also asked shadow cabinet colleagues to join him in resigning if Corbyn ignored that request. A spokesman for Benn declined to comment.
Corbyn informed Benn, the son of his former mentor, Tony Benn, at 1am on Sunday that he was sacking him because he had lost the Labour leader’s trust, a spokesman said.
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There is a huge difference between the two!
Sagalout like most of the remain lot you think this is all about immigration and paying the EU a fee, this is about democracy.
Free from the EU we can start to be a true democracy again rather than a puppet state of the increasingly federated EU and it's few appointed (not democratically elected) leaders.
And we all knew there would be a few years of turmoil upon leaving, I don't understand why everybody is up in arms about it, it doesn't take a masters to work out this was going to happen.
The gamble is that after the dust has settled we are better off, I voted leave and so obviously I would bet that in due course we will be.
Free from the EU we can start to be a true democracy again rather than a puppet state of the increasingly federated EU and it's few appointed (not democratically elected) leaders.
And we all knew there would be a few years of turmoil upon leaving, I don't understand why everybody is up in arms about it, it doesn't take a masters to work out this was going to happen.
The gamble is that after the dust has settled we are better off, I voted leave and so obviously I would bet that in due course we will be.
As a tipsy Scotsman thinking out of the box, A simple solution would be to give both England and Wales a true Brexit.
In it's simplest form, allow both England(with the exception of London) and Wales to exit Britain. Britain which would then be made up of Scotland, Northern Ireland and London would continue to remain a member of the EU. Scotland would move closer to independence by gaining a border while sharing power with London and Northern Ireland. Both England and Wales would proceed however they wished free of the EU while we all continue to share the Pound as before allowing internal trade across the United Kingdom to continue.
Another top up of Glenmorangie then bed.
In it's simplest form, allow both England(with the exception of London) and Wales to exit Britain. Britain which would then be made up of Scotland, Northern Ireland and London would continue to remain a member of the EU. Scotland would move closer to independence by gaining a border while sharing power with London and Northern Ireland. Both England and Wales would proceed however they wished free of the EU while we all continue to share the Pound as before allowing internal trade across the United Kingdom to continue.
Another top up of Glenmorangie then bed.
Soldato
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We were talking about a national plan. History shows these two areas get a disproportionate amount. What I was saying was lets have the North of England and other parts getting the lions share for a change.
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Very well said.... Unfortunately this will be seen as fear mongering from the usual bunch
Soldato
i make decisions every day as do you but the crux of the matter is my or your decisions do not dictate a state as you put it, i was under the impression that we vote on who 'governs'
the men and women as far as i am aware that are in the eu are not subject to this process and for me i cannot see the positive in that. does not seem democratic to me, am i missing somthing?
It is exactly that until any of it is proven to be true.
Soldato
London is absolutely essential to the economy. All those Brexiters who think they've got one over on the establishment are in for a bucket load of self-inflicted pain in the coming years once all that vomit inducing patriotism will has worn off. The financial industry is in turmoil. Maybe they're dreaming of newly energised industries which have previously failed or are in a state of failing now. Don't need to name any.
Nevermind - got to be positive, not allowed to complain. Think of all the fish and chip shops, ice cream parlours and skittle alleys you can fit into the City of London. We can hang loads of bunting too and play hop scotch all day. We can make Britain great again.
Personally I am just struggling to see what true democracy actually means, and what we actually get from it. See that word thrown around but what exactly can we do now that we did not before? We have a monarch which no one elected, House of Lords no one elected lots of other various roles no one elected.
Maybe I am just walking around with blinders and missing something obvious.
Is there?
It was all doom and gloom about the Euro. We were going to get left behind. The Eurozone was going to march to gold plated paradise. The City was going to collapse. The UK would become a basket case economy.
Here we are years later and the Eurozone looks like a disaster zone. If Nissan want to invest their money into some other European country they can be my guess. Where are they going to invest it? What other Country can offer an investment platform like the UK in Europe?
Forget the single market, what other major European economy is as open to business investment as the UK is?
I bet that even WITH tarrifs the UK is still a better prospect for trading with the EU. That's what so insane about this situation.
What good is a single market when everyone inside of it is a sick man of Europe? The more I think about it is the EU more like a weight watchers group. Loads of fat Women going through the motions while the slim toned coach (Germany) claps to drum up a bit of enthusiasm.
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