Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mana, Apr 26, 2006.
Heh, you have no idea about UFC do you?
MMA fighters aren't just mindless brutes. Take a look at Crocop for example; his standup is as good as it gets and i'd bet on him to beat any JDK/Karate/Wing Chun practitioner with ease.
Erm it was the fact that traditional martial artists were < cross trainers that none of them are still in the UFC tbh if you watch the old one's like UFC 5 for example. The only "traditional martial art that people still "specialise" is BJJ and they still cross train???
This thread is really silly as it seems there are only a couple of people that actually know what theyre talking about regards UFC's history and the effectiveness of certain martial arts.
i would put my money on Bruce lee to win
You almost made me wonder if I had mistaken UFC for something else, then i saw the link below your post...
I stand by my point, big meatheads with too much testosterone. From what i can see they are all european or american. How about a thai kickboxer or just about any japanese master (and im not talking about olympic champions here) they will wipe the floor with those slow moving fighters.
I think it is safe to say Crocop is 'HARD', even in those rather fetching gay chequered shorts.
Hard? maybe, but look of the state of his oppenents in that clip, none of them look like dedicated fight machines, so much fat around the middle, not the same class as him at all. The majority looked like total mismatches to me.
If this is true, then why aren't all the Thai kickboxers and Japanese masters (masters of what?) competing in the UFC and walking away with the money?
UFC is in an octagon which makes a big difference I think as it means ultimately you are almost certain to end up on the ground.
In any kind of MMA fight I think Bruce Lee would get beaten. MMA fights have rules, if you want to win you need to learn to fight using those rules. Look at all the supposed martial arts experts in the early UFCs who basically got taken down to the ground and then submitted with ease. In a street fight it might be a different matter, but in a ring/cage/octagonTM...
People forget that Bruce Lee wasn't some superhuman killing machine. He was a very good fighter, but still flesh and blood.
This is a very interesting question. There are several points to take into consideration.
Jeet Kune Do as stated earlier, was the forerunner to all modern day mixed martial arts. A good example of what JKD is, can be seen at the beginning of Enter the Dragon, where Bruce Fights Sammo Hung.
Bruce Lee is widely acknowledged by many people as the father of mixed martial arts due to his development of JKD.
Bruce Lee, when he was alive was probably pound for pound one of the strongest people alive.
His fitness levels were as near to perfection as any human being could possibly reach.
His reaction and strike speeds were second to none.
Having said that, I think that if Lee were to enter a MMA contest such as PRIDE or UFC he would get beaten, due to his insufficient knowledge of how modern MMA fighters fight.
The only way for him to win, would be using his striking skills and power to KO his opponent, because his level of training in submission and wrestling would leave him at a serious disadvantage if he was put on the ground.
If he was to train as an MMA/shoot fighter I would almost guarantee that he would beat everyone in his weight class and probably most people above his class too.
All in all, I still regard him as the greatest martial artist to have ever lived.
Anyone that says that MMA fighters are slow, unskillful, etc has no clue whatsoever. The top guys are at peak fitness levels and have the stamina to put a lot of athletes to shame. They fight like animals because it is a full contact sport. There is no room for hesitation, you go on instinct and make full use of your training.
That i agree with, he may not necessarily have won in the ring but in a no rules fight he would almost certainly win. The question at the beginning was about just fighting not sport as such.
I didnt mean slow in as much as the same speed as us but in comparison to a proper kickboxer or martial artist they are SLOW, you carry that much bulk around and you will be slower. Watch a few professional kickboxers ( ie thai's not english) and martial artists and you will see what i mean, when you dont even see the leg hit someones head you can call it fast.
The reason people that i have said about dont go into UFC and MMA is because they excel in their particular sport and dont want to get into a more pumped up and showy sport (thats not an insult it just shows the difference in culture, go watch a karate kumate and you'll see the difference, a lot less show and pomp.) I have to admit though if these people went straight into the ring and fought under the rules they would be beaten as panthro said because they wouldnt have the right stratergy.
basically thai boxers train for one thing. Naturally the thai and chinese people are not very big. You look at the heavyweights of UFC and they are huge. None of the thai guys would dent them.
Its a different sport.
Most of the UFC guys are kickboxing/thai-kickboxing experts and that is what the specialise in, you don't need to be from Thailand to be a thai-kickboxer.
A good example is Chuck Liddell, one of the top strikers and is a kickboxing specialist.
Of course they also train in other martial arts hence the name of the game mma (mixed martial arts) like BJJ, Combat Submission Wrestling, JKD, Western Boxing etc.
As for the theoretical Bruce Lee vs. I have nothing to say on that, I can't believe people have responded to such BS and im loling at 90% of the posts from people who no nothing about fighting.
The reason i said thai was because the best people are from asia (the thai area) they are far better than anyone the UK or US have produced in kick boxing
oh yeah i wasnt saying that thai boxers arnt good. Most of the best MMA fighters are BJJ/ thai boxing. I was saying that most of the native thai boxers from thailand are not too big.
Would someone that's good in Krav Maga be able to stand up to any of these UFC guys, or to some full-blown martial artist?
I'm sorry, do you realise how stupid that sounds? You're saying that someone can deliver a kick to the head so fast that your eye doesn't register it. Mmm.
Threads like these are hilarious. You get people coming out saying Bruce Lee could catch bullets with his eyelids and bench press battleships. The whole Lee legend isn't exactly 100% accurate.
Remember though that even in Pride, UFC, Pancrase and any other MMA competition the fighters are always matched by weight, so size is irrelevant.
I have a keen interest in martial arts but I don't really like the MMA stuff that much, I find it crude, it lacks the poetry of more traditional forms and certainly lacks the mental and spiritual side of the arts. That said, there is no doubt that they have created a very effective sport and fighting style and remember a lot of the competitors have usually trained in traditional forms as well. A good UFC fighter needs to take the best from whatever he feels suits him, very few of the champions have trained in one discipline only.
Separate names with a comma.