Canadian Grand Prix 2013, Montréal - Race 7/19

Sorry to burst your bubble but Lewis beat him twice :) and in the right car ;)

No bubble to burst.

They are several drivers better than Button. All I said was when he is on form with the right car Button is superfast and practically untouchable. He has a very smooth driving style which lends itself well to the current tyre management required.

Lewis beat him for two seasons, I know im a Lewis supporter.
 
Lewis beat him for two seasons, I know im a Lewis supporter.

Hamilton must be terrible if you are classifying 2 points over 20 races as "beaten" - its a margin of error

McLaren absolutely ****** JB over the weekend. Releasing him 2nd right at the back of the pack on Saturday when he needed to be right at the front, and then before the 1st tyre stop he could have saved 5 -10 seconds by coming in a few laps earlier than he did (and Paul was ok for 50 odd laps, so I don't see why McLaren couldn't have done 45+ on the same tyres)

Even so he made up a place relative to his team mate, and came in nose to tail without the benefit of the extra stop
 
RIP the marshall, that's terrible news. :(

RE: Hamilton vs. Button James Allen did quite an interesting comparison at the end of last season.

The one thing that article doesn't reflect is the position each driver was in when they retired in the 13 / 8 races that they failed to finish.

I can't easily find these statistics and don't have time to work it out but it would be interesting to see how many points each driver actually dropped due to their DNFs (for whatever reason, mechanical or driver error).
 
RIP to that marshal.

Looking at the pictures though makes me think they need a review of the procedure for recovering cars like this. The guy was running alongside the forklift with it pretty much clipping his heels, while holding a foot long (or less) tether attached to the back of the car. Recipe for disaster.
 
Yeah, it looked nasty. Those cranes are big machines, and having one of those things drive over your back isn't going to end well which is what has happened here. Poor chap, thoughts go out to his family.
 
Jesus that's horrible. R.I.P :(

Martin in the commentary mentioned they should leave it there till race end but for different reasons.
 
It has to be said, when a car suits him or in changing conditions, Button is one of the best in the world. Canada 2011 shows that. Anyone else would have been spinning like a top when he swooped past Webber onto the wet track on slicks.

It should also be said that when a car doesn't suit him he doesn't seem capable of delivering a result and dragging the car round the way Hamilton or Alonso can do. The ability to drive a car faster than the sum of its parts is a very rare trait and not many have it and I include Vettel in that.

QUOTE]

Tosh and another myth, he dragged the BAR/Honda around to the point that all of the paddock were impressed at what he was able to do. He also contributed and helped setup the Brawn that won the WC. McLaren missing LH like a hole in the head.

These are the statements made by Whitmarsh and JB:
"It was a tough afternoon," he said. "We got it wrong. With Button, we should have started on the 'prime' [medium] tyre. We really stayed out on the 'option' [super-soft] too long, stayed in traffic and lost a lot of time.
"In the case of Jenson, we set him lap time targets which were too slow - and he could have gone much faster. He could have pushed into the points.
"It was one weekend where we didn't get it right. We were not quick enough to be at the front but we should have been able to get in the points."
Button added: "The team gave me a lap time, but it wasn't quick enough. We got the calculations wrong. Once I started pushing, the pace was quite a bit better."
I've never been so pleased to get out of a car. It was quite painful out there. We got lapped, easily lapped. It was like we were in a different category."

Quite clearly they got the strategy wrong.

The news that a marshall died is very sad and it seems bizarre. Takes the wind out of the whole weekend really....
 
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Tosh and another myth, he dragged the BAR/Honda around to the point that all of the paddock were impressed at what he was able to do. He also contributed and helped setup the Brawn that won the WC. McLaren missing LH like a hole in the head.

The news that a marshall died is very sad and it seems bizarre. Takes the wind out of the whole weekend really....

Button didn't drag BAR/Honda anywhere. A **** load of Honda money and Brawn working for 2 years on the car did that. The best season they had prior to that was 2004 when they finished 2nd. 2003 was the last year Villenueve was at the team and after that until the Brawn they went no where. If you are one of these people that believe drivers these days develope cars (and I'm far from one of them) you could say JV developed the car for 2004 and once he left the car went nowhere....

Despite BAR's success in 2004, with Jenson Button finishing third in the drivers' championship and the Brackley outfit finishing runner-up in the constructors' championship to Ferrari, some of Honda's senior engineers are said to be missing the technical input of the 1997 world champion.

Without doubt, 2004 was BAR's best ever season, and depending on whom you listen to, the credit should go to Button, Geoff Willis, David Richards, Honda and all manner of others.

However to according to one respected source, senior engineers at Honda believe that the reason the Japanese manufacturer made a major step forward in 2004 was due to the input it received from Jacques Villeneuve while he was with the team.

Furthermore, it is claimed that despite the sterling work being done by the team's current race and test drivers, they are all chassis men and not giving the sort of engine feedback that Honda is used to.

We hear that several Honda engineers "regret" the decision to let Villeneuve go and are highly critical of the way in which the relationship ended. It's understood that Honda knew that this was a long-term programme but despite his best efforts, Button isn't progressing as fast - in terms of engine development - as Villeneuve.


People hang far too much much on driver feed back these days. I'm sure the engineers at Mclaren have a game of Button Bingo before briefings where they guess how many times he will offer 'balance' as feedback.
 
People hang far too much much on driver feed back these days. I'm sure the engineers at Mclaren have a game of Button Bingo before briefings where they guess how many times he will offer 'balance' as feedback.

It'd be a pretty lame game of bingo if everyones card simply said Balance :p
 
Theres a drinking game in there.

Whenever Button says 'balance'
Whenever anyone says 'for sure'
Whenever MB says 'in my day'
Whenever Hamilton looks misserable
Whenever Vettel puts up the finger
Whenever Fat John crashes

You'd be hammered before the race even started!
 
Thought it was quite a tame race for Canadian standards and somewhat funny that they tyre model was based around the chaos this track gave Bridgestone yet the tyres were perfect here to push the whole race here :D

Red Bull seem to have taken another step forward and Ferrari and Lotus seem a bit left behind, great drive from Alonso though but if Ferrari continue to tie one hand behind his back then he is not going to win the title again this year.
 
It's funny, when Button has a bad race, strategy is ENTIRELY down to the team and not Button, when Button gets a "perfect" call on when to pit, what tyre to be on, its always always entirely Button's tyre management that is better and his brilliant tactical decisions he makes himself that do it.

AS for being at the back of the queue in Q2, are people forgetting because its convenient to make Button look better, that almost no one went faster in the last run, and Button went out because he was unable to put in a good time before the red flag like everyone else? He went out of Q2, because he was slow in Q2, nothing more or less, likewise it seemed he had time to get around and simply backed off the car infront too much to get across the line in time.

Di Resta was screwed because the team tried to fix a minor problem at the wrong time while the track was the fastest, he had no chance, Button was ON THE TRACK when the track was the fastest and simply wasn't slow enough, no comparison.

Back to strategy and how long he was on the tyres, that is ALSO HIS DECISION. As for what Force India did being suggestive of what Mclaren can do, rubbish, for the previous two seasons the Force India has had better tyre wear than the Mclaren as well as others, so absolutely no reason to believe the Mclaren could come close on tyre wear.

Merc and Mclaren are making similar tactical errors, they are cars that don't fit the "perfect" strategy for whatever reason, and currently try and force the optimum strategy while falling back to the one the car can actually handle, and losing time being on the wrong strategy pace till they change. When there is a choice in a race between 2/3 stop, a Ferrari/Lotus has that choice, the Mclaren is borderline(this year harder to see if tyre wear has gone backwards from last year due to pace of car), Merc absolutely can't, but when you pee around on 2 stop pace, then switch to a three stop, you automatically lose 20-25seconds for the extra pitstop that you then can't make back.


Points have NOTHING to do with driver quality, neither do titles, all you can gleam from titles is a driver was very likely in the best car that year, or a car so close to the best as to make them competitive, and sometimes you can determine who the better driver in a team is, depends on the status in the team though to a degree.

Hamilton outdrove Button for the massive majority of 3 years, full stop, points don't tell a story, Hamilton EASILY outdrove Button on the track through the yeah he "lost" on points, just the races he was taken out by Massa/Maldo/Webber would have put him ahead of Button(oh, and the race Button took him out), let alone the fact that Hamilton was hurt by actually fighting the cars infront, when Button frequently wasn't, its the downside of racing, punish drivers fast enough to fight with the car infront.....
 
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