Poll: Canadian Grand Prix 2022, Montreal - Race 9

Rate the 2022 Canadian Grand Prix out of ten


  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Soldato
Joined
16 Nov 2003
Posts
5,457
Again this nonsense about the car being designed around him. The RB the last few years didn't suit his driving style, he's specifically said that's not how he likes to the drive the car and he had to adapt to it.

What you could say is that he had the most experience with the car compared to the guys being dropped in and out which definitely would've helped. Newey will be all about designing the fastest car and its up to the driver to drive it. Obviously they can make setup changes to make it more preferable to a drivers style but i doubt there's much compromise. :o I think the best drivers are always the ones that can make the best of what's under them regardless and Max does seem to be one of those guys. Look at Riciardo, he's a great driver but the current Mclaren doesn't allow him to use his late breaking like he could in the RB. (Which seems to be a big part of his driving style) The Mclaren front end just doesn't give him the confidence to race how he likes and he's suffering for it. But he's also the same Riciardo that was trading blows with Max when in a car that suited him. I saw a video on Youtube where Sainz spoke to him and was like, 'how are you handling that Mclaren? It's weird isn't it' And Riciardo was like, 'Yeah thanks for that, you could've told me last year!' :D
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2006
Posts
3,956
Location
Lincolnshire
Talent as in raw talent.

I didn't say he was necessarily the best overall driver. I still think he has better racecraft to learn and needs more experience at the top.
I agree with you and he's also not there to win any popularity contests either. He's still young so there's more to come from him but we are witnessing another driver up there with Lewis and Michael with his talent..
 
Associate
Joined
26 Feb 2022
Posts
602
Location
UK
I dont believe any of them would "drive rings around him" at all.

Gasly is an odd one to list there considering he was in the same car as Max for a period of time, was rubbish in comparison and then got dropped..!

You have to just accept what Entai says as fact, not opinion. Don't forget, he's the internet man who was a number 1 mechanic and is therefore best placed to rate theoretical driver ability.
 
Caporegime
Joined
20 May 2007
Posts
39,678
Location
Surrey
You have to just accept what Entai says as fact, not opinion. Don't forget, he's the internet man who was a number 1 mechanic and is therefore best placed to rate theoretical driver ability.

Well, for the other drivers, i guess we will never truly know. For Gasly....we know :p.
 

Dup

Dup

Soldato
Joined
10 Mar 2006
Posts
11,236
Location
East Lancs
Is Max quick, raw quick? Yes.

Is he the complete package? Far from it. Stick one of the other top 5 drivers in an equal car and his inability to conceed track position and drive intelligently shows him up every single time.

Makes for entertaining racing, but it's why Hamilton will have 7/8 WDC and Max will maybe have 2/3 like Alonso. Because of that huge chip on their shoulder.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Oct 2002
Posts
17,909
Location
London
I saw a video on Youtube where Sainz spoke to him and was like, 'how are you handling that Mclaren? It's weird isn't it' And Riciardo was like, 'Yeah thanks for that, you could've told me last year!' :D
lol that's funny :D
I agree with you and he's also not there to win any popularity contests either. He's still young so there's more to come from him but we are witnessing another driver up there with Lewis and Michael with his talent..
This is why people get more than annoyed by talk about Max. The hype is ridiculous. There is literally no evidence right now that he's going to go on to win more than 1-2 world championships. The RB next year could be a dog, the team might crumble and RB might altogether pull the plug. He might lose his edge and become even more inconsistent. He might get unlucky with another team and sit in the midfield for 2-3 years. We just don't know. By all means, come back in 5 years if he's won 5 in a row and you can start making comparisons... But right now? Just no. He's yet another young upstart with a temper on him that just happens to drive quick.. in the quickest car on the grid. We've seen so many drivers like that in the past.
Stick one of the other top 5 drivers in an equal car and his inability to conceed track position and drive intelligently shows him up every single time.
Thing is, personally I don't think he'll ever lose that temper. Look at his Dad. Listen to his radio messages. Look at him picking an actual fight in the cool down room with Ocon. He's been driving long enough you would have thought he'd be more mature than his age lets on. Look at Leclerc or Russell as a comparison. And all that could well be the difference between a championship here and there.
 

Deleted member 651465

D

Deleted member 651465

His temper will be his undoing. At the moment it's accepted because he's winning but the moment he gets in a car that is mid-pack the team won't put up with it.

I chuckled when he came out of the pits at Canada (in the quickest car on the grid) and his first instinct was to get on the radio swearing at his team for putting him behind a Merc he must have known he would easily pass.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Posts
2,674
I don't understand why the teams don't give MV a good telling off about his attitude on radio etc.
As a manager I would never allow people to speak to other colleagues like that, why because it is F1 is it any different.

Must be hard for the guy on the other end of the radio not to talk back to him like that.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Posts
11,002
Location
All along the watchtower
Max has been brilliant this year and last, I don't think we can say for sure if any other driver could beat him in the same team and probably never will. Perez has been unnervingly close this year, and he was effectively out of a job.
 

Dup

Dup

Soldato
Joined
10 Mar 2006
Posts
11,236
Location
East Lancs
It also makes headlines and is free marketing for the teams and sport. It's an aspect I don't care too much for personally but I suspect they allow it for the show (not suggesting it's contrived, Max is clearly an angry little chip off the old block :D).
 
Soldato
Joined
16 Nov 2003
Posts
5,457
Max has been brilliant this year and last, I don't think we can say for sure if any other driver could beat him in the same team and probably never will. Perez has been unnervingly close this year, and he was effectively out of a job.

What i love about F1 is that Ricciardo beat Verstappen over 2 seasons but is now being beaten by Norris who was beaten over the season by Sainz who couldn't quite overtake Max at the weekend and is also being bested by Leclerc. :o :D Taking into account all the performance variables of car, the design and the driver and their driving styles it always amazes me how close they actually end up.
 
Soldato
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Posts
5,425
Location
Location, Location!

Translation:

Drama at the team bosses' meeting

CANADA 2022 GP At the team bosses' meeting in Montreal, things got pretty heated behind the scenes. Toto Wolff is said to have been particularly emotional during the dispute over the issue of bouncing, according to eyewitnesses. After the race, the play was then performed in public.

In addition to the sport on the track, there is always a lot of politics going on off the track in Formula 1. But it has been a long time since the premier class has seen such a clamour as in Montreal. The bouncing problem of the new generation of racing cars and the potential dangers for the drivers divide the field into two camps. In one is Mercedes, in the other the nine remaining teams.

The FIA also added fuel to the fire with its surprise technical directive (TD) one day before the first Canadian practice session. When F1 boss Stefano Domenicali called the ten team bosses to the usual meeting in his pavilion on Saturday morning, the mood was already quite testy. The discussions were correspondingly emotional.

Outburst of rage after Ferrari objection

Ferrari boss Mattia Binotto voiced his concerns that the FIA had not followed the formally correct path in introducing the TD. After the race, the Italian also stated his position publicly: "For us, the TD is not applicable. We have also explained that to the FIA. A TD is normally there to provide clarifications regarding existing rules. A TD is not there to change the rules. If the FIA wants different rules for safety reasons, it has to declare it in the World Council, and get it formally signed off."

Mercedes colleague Toto Wolff reportedly reacted angrily to the Ferrari objection, according to reports from other participants. The Austrian accused the entire group of colleagues of acting irresponsibly. If nothing is done to get the bouncing under control, he said, there will be a serious accident at some point.

After last year's World Championship duel, the feud between Wolff and Horner continues on the subject of bouncing.

Because a Netflix crew was present in the room to shoot footage for the next season of the documentary series "Drive to Survive," Red Bull team boss Christian Horner reportedly asked mockingly if Wolff's little tantrum was just for the cameras. The Briton later explained to the press: "There was quite a bit of drama produced in the meeting. Maybe he wanted to get ready for a role in Lewis' (Hamilton) new movie."

Aston Martin team boss Mike Krack, who has only been in office since the start of the season, followed the spectacle with some astonishment. "There was a bit of emotion in the meeting. There was a camera. I think Christian asked if it could be turned off. But I can't say if it was still recording at the end and if the microphones were open the whole time."

Bouncing just a Mercedes problem?

After the race, the verbal duel went into the second round. Horner urged Mercedes to look at its own nose when it comes to bouncing: "In the meeting, Ferrari put forward its position on the TD. And Toto campaigned to change the regulations. There's a certain irony in that, because his car looked pretty fast in the race and hardly showed any bouncing. We then explained to him that it wasn't the problem of all the teams. They were the ones most affected. It's their responsibility to deal with it properly.

"Is bouncing such a big issue only at Mercedes or at all teams?

Wolff wasn't about to take that lying down. Mercedes continues to insist that it is a general safety problem: "The political games ignore the real core of the issue. Since the beginning of the season, drivers from all teams have been complaining about the cars. We're talking about back pain, blurred vision and minor concussions. This is not about banning a wing that gives a team an advantage. As team principals, we have a responsibility not to take the issue lightly."

Here, too, came the direct counter from the Red Bull camp: "Toto claims that all the other drivers have complained. But no complaints ever came from our drivers. Mercedes drives its car so hard. I think it's more a problem of their car concept and not a problem of the regulations. You can't just change the rules in the middle of the season. If a team feels that their car is dangerous, then they shouldn't use it. In case of doubt, the FIA can also take a car out of the race by black flagging it," Horner said.

Trouble over Mercedes support cables

There was also a dispute about the specific content of the technical directive. Ferrari criticized the fact that no proper procedure was defined for the measurements of the intensity of the bouncing and for the definition of limit values. Therefore, he said, the TD was also not applicable. "In the end, much ado was made about nothing," Binotto shook his head.

The second support cable for stabilizing the subsoil, which was allowed with the TD, also caused discussion. It is supposed to help reduce shaking. "The introduction of the second support cable needs to be discussed in a technical committee," Horner criticized. "It only helps one team to fix its problems. And that team was also the only one that showed up here directly with it - before the TD was even sent out."

Mercedes tried a second support cable in free practice, which had only been allowed a day earlier.

Red Bull wasn't the only one surprised at how quickly Mercedes was able to react to the new rules. "Toto claimed that they fitted the support cables overnight. All I can say to that is that we, as Ferrari, would not have been able to do that," Binotto clarified.

Alpine also expressed its annoyance. "They must have known about it beforehand. There's no other way something like this could have happened," scolded team boss Otmar Szafnauer. Alpine had even announced a protest if Mercedes had competed in the race with the additional fasteners.

Rumors quickly made the rounds in the paddock that former Wolff advisor Shaila-Ann Rao might have tipped Mercedes off. The lawyer had taken over the position at the FIA as Formula One executive director from Peter Beyer just a few weeks ago. Binotto admitted that he is not entirely happy with the personnel matter: "I have concerns, no question. But the confidence in the FIA is there. She is an advocate and she is a professional. I'm confident that the FIA can prove in the future that our concerns are unfounded.


Some dodgy stuff going on with Mercedes? Toto certainly not making any friends lately.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Oct 2002
Posts
17,909
Location
London
Because he's driving at 300 kph.
lol exactly. I honestly don't mind the sweary radio. There's a lot of industries you couldn't get into if you were scared of a bit of bad language! It's Max's attitude that still comes across though, it's so aggressive towards his team, it's always portioning blame on them.
Some dodgy stuff going on with Mercedes? Toto certainly not making any friends lately.
I think we can all see that he's making a valid safety point about the porpoising. For Horner to make jokes and act up in front of the cameras is really bad form to be honest. I'd be seething too. Show's how much RB care about anyone's health. They're winning, so sod all logic and safety :o Much the same as when Verstappen drove over Lewis's head and didn't even check on him afterwards. Awful, awful team.
 
Associate
Joined
29 Oct 2019
Posts
1,002
Perez: you can even lose your vision when braking or not being able to position the car properly
Horner: no complaints ever came from our drivers
:cry:

It really is diabolical how they're willing to sacrifice the drivers health because they might lose a performance advantage. There have been multiple rule changes to slow Mercedes down, but it would be unthinkable to have rule changes for driver safety.
 
Soldato
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Posts
5,425
Location
Location, Location!
Perez: you can even lose your vision when braking or not being able to position the car properly
Horner: no complaints ever came from our drivers
:cry:

It really is diabolical how they're willing to sacrifice the drivers health because they might lose a performance advantage. There have been multiple rule changes to slow Mercedes down, but it would be unthinkable to have rule changes for driver safety.

What mid season rule changes have there been before out of interest?
 
Associate
Joined
29 Oct 2019
Posts
1,002
What mid season rule changes have there been before out of interest?

"This latest regulation change is arguably the biggest to occur mid-season since 2013, when Pirelli had to change the construction of their tyres in response to a series of delaminations and blowouts – and Red Bull were the big winners of that change."

But it is really irrelevant whether or not there have been mid-season rule changes before, safety has to come first.
 
Soldato
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Posts
5,425
Location
Location, Location!

"This latest regulation change is arguably the biggest to occur mid-season since 2013, when Pirelli had to change the construction of their tyres in response to a series of delaminations and blowouts – and Red Bull were the big winners of that change."

But it is really irrelevant whether or not there have been mid-season rule changes before, safety has to come first.

That's a poor example, tyres are identical for everybody. The teams don't design the tyres it's outside of their control, the complete opposite of the porpoising situation.

And if it is health and safety you are so worried about then get Mercedes to change their car/set up. The 9 other teams are managing it, yet the rules need to change mid-season? For one team who refuses to take responsibility for how THEY are pushing their own drivers' health?

Sorry but the rules are the same for everyone, Mercedes only care about performance and are using the excuse of health to try and keep some semblance of performance.

I have no issue with new rules regarding this for next season, but to change it mid-season for one team? You can see why the other team principles are not happy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom