Canon 5D MKIII or Nikon D800

[Rojin]

Check out TP'S gear forum. less bickering and fanboys compared to here

You are jesting? TP used to be pretty decent but has gone downhill with Internet warriors proclaiming how things are based off nothing other than reading a review (probably from Ken Rockwell) and a whole bunch of sheep who start bleating the same. Granted it may have got better, but I rarely visit there now because of how cringe worthy it got.

I am still shooting with a D90. I had saved up for a D800 and a 500mm f/4.0 to with it. Then I found out my with was expecting and I purchased a house instead

If I see a good deal on a D800 I might grab one before the baby arrives but likely I will wait it out.

And yes, I am still kind of hoping the D300s replacement will come, although the D7100 is pretty much ideal for me since I am really getting into wildlife work. The D800 is exceptional but if I use it in DX crop mode a lot of the time I might as well go for the D7100.

A lot are hoping for a D400 announcement in January...

 

[Raymond Lin]

Would you still have it if you could?

Actually, no, coz I like my "brick".

I don't use it enough to justify twice the outlay for the same photo. It won't make my photos better getting the mk2 that's for sure.

I rather update the 16-35 to mk2 instead.

 

[Rojin]

There have been literally loads of MK1's been sold on TP since the MK2 came along for under a grand

Yeah. Around £800 for a nice example. They did rise to over £1k just after the mkII release but have dropped back down again now.

 

[dannyjo22]

You are jesting? TP used to be pretty decent but has gone downhill with Internet warriors proclaiming how things are based off nothing other than reading a review (probably from Ken Rockwell) and a whole bunch of sheep who start bleating the same. Granted it may have got better, but I rarely visit there now because of how cringe worthy it got..

Agreed, I only ever read the lighting section there now and occasionally the Post Processing section, usually when I'm having issues

 

[An Exception]

I dont dismiss or get into silly arguments over gear because its ****ing childish and pathetic.

I may have done so in the past but not anymore.

I have met many real live photographers including some here . Go and ask them if i chat and argue about freaking gear lol.

i would not like to meet Exception if that is how his like in real life ie gloating on how superior his or hers gear is as quite frankly i dont care lol

Yeh it sounds like it.. cookoo cookoo

 

[Raymond Lin]

Eventually though, I won't be shooting Nikon/Canon at all. These two are dinosaurs and won't adapt fast enough to the changing conditions. Especially Nikon...

I just saw this and thought of what you said.

http://petapixel.com/2013/12/30/report-claims-nikon-canon-sony-will-survive-smartphone-revolution/

Panasonic, Fujifilm and Olympus are all losing money on cameras, according to the report, and don’t have any immediate prospects of turning that around as global mirrorless sales stagnate and the market for compact camera evaporates at an alarming pace.

Looks like you are stuck with Canon or Nikon (or Sony) for a while longer, unless you plan to shoot it on your phone?

Original Reuter article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-japan-cameras-20131229,0,3414857.story

I guess it's not a surprise. If people merely wants camera in their pocket then a phone would do.

Although I am looking at a Fuji because of the current sale/rebate. Perhaps that is why they are doing it, to make a push in sale because of this news.

 

[Rojin]

A new X-Pro1 must be on the way. The new X-E2 is arguably a better camera, the AF is certainly improved. Fuji are very unlikely to go full frame though. This would mean a new lens system and they're already losing money in their camera division, can they afford to take the gamble? The Sony A8, provably A9 if they're still going with it, is probably going to be quite interesting. I wonder what the deal with Nikon is with the sensors, if they do start going well with their own kit it would make sense for them to pull the plug.

Olympus I loved the look of, but was underwhelmed once I got to hold one. Reviews etc. have only cooled my GAS even more.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I am looking at the X-M1 myself. At the moment there is a £100 cash back plus £100 Amazon vouchers.

Making the camera £250. Use the £100 to get a 35mm, and then claim another £100 cash back ?

 

[An Exception]

^^^
I keep looking at Fuji at the moment. I'm tempted by a X-E2 as a walkabout camera. I also hear Fuji are about to release a more 'pro' level body, so that maybe interesting.

 

[Raymond Lin]

^^^
I keep looking at Fuji at the moment. I'm tempted by a X-E2 as a walkabout camera. I also hear Fuji are about to release a more 'pro' level body, so that maybe interesting.

I just can't decide if the X-pro one is worth it for me over the X-M1.

It'll only be something I would take with me for the weekend or something.

 

[An Exception]

I just saw this and thought of what you said.

http://petapixel.com/2013/12/30/report-claims-nikon-canon-sony-will-survive-smartphone-revolution/

Looks like you are stuck with Canon or Nikon (or Sony) for a while longer, unless you plan to shoot it on your phone?

I agree with the article from a consumer market perspective.
"Panasonic, Fujifilm and Olympus are all losing money on cameras"

While this is true, I heard that Fuji were actually making money on it's X system, even if it was losing money on camera's overall, although I can't say I've fact checked that.

Imo the writing is on the wall. There is or won't be any money in consumer camera's in the near to more long-term future. The camera on my 5s is actually pretty impressive, and I can see why people wouldn't bother with a crappy point and shoot.

Strangely I was surprised to hear Sony's smartphone lens/camera (QX10 etc.) was doing really well. I didn't expect that tbh.

Fuji and Sony have the potential to eat allot of Canikons professional cake market. The pro market is the only camera market with good margins and somewhat decent profits. It's also a market that should be immune to the iphone, at least for a good while.

If I was the CEO of Fuji/Sony I would double down on R&D and get out a mirrorless system that competed with Canikon from a performance perspective, and then go from there. If they don't it will be a slow death.

 

[An Exception]

I just can't decide if the X-pro one is worth it for me over the X-M1.

It'll only be something I would take with me for the weekend or something.

I tried the xpro1 but didn't like it. Didn't like the optical viewfinder as the lens covered the bottom 1/4 of the frame. Things like that would drive me nuts. Also the EVF was poor.So if I was to go mirrorless, it would have to be one with a good quality EVF.

That's what I like about the X-E2. I also like the fact it has good AF performance, although only with the centre point which is the only thing stopping me placing an order.

The thing about the X-E2 for me is, it's just so damn beautiful. It's like the Aston Martin of the camera world. I know that shouldn't matter, but the camera has a strange allure over me.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I tried the xpro1 but didn't like it. Didn't like the optical viewfinder as the lens covered the bottom 1/4 of the frame. Things like that would drive me nuts. Also the EVF was poor.So if I was to go mirrorless, it would have to be one with a good quality EVF.

That's what I like about the X-E2. I also like the fact it has good AF performance, although only with the centre point which is the only thing stopping me placing an order.

The thing about the X-E2 for me is, it's just so damn beautiful. It's like the Aston Martin of the camera world. I know that shouldn't matter, but the camera has a strange allure over me.

This Fuji would be a "toy" for me. I've tried the X-100 so I seen the viewfinder in it, and you are right, it's not great. It sucks actually compared to a DSLR, any DSLR.

Hence I am willing to forgo that aspect completely and get the X-M1. Seeing it can be had for £270 at the moment.

 

[An Exception]

Yeh it would be a toy for me as well if I got the X-E2. However I would prefer that the camera was good enough that I would be happy to ditch my DSLR for paid work. I know there are some high profile photographers who have already done that, even a wedding photographer, but I still think mirrorless is too much of a step backward for me.

A little bit further down the road, I can see myself shooting a X based camera, along with a 23mm 1.4 and a 56mm 1.2.
I would likely keep one D800 for landscape duty.

 

[An Exception]

Hence I am willing to forgo that aspect completely and get the X-M1. Seeing it can be had for £270 at the moment.

Give it ago. Try it out in a shop, or order one. If you don't like it return it.

 

[42zx]

Aren't there still problems with fine detail when using the X sensor? The watercolour effect? It's a lot better than it was but its still there as far as I've read up.

 

[Ksanti]

I'm fairly sure I said multiple times that I prefer Canon's lens lineup, and I prefer the Canon interface and shooting methods, but the raw IQ from the D800 won me over considering the body was so much cheaper, but there were clear arguments for both systems depending on one's uses. Yes, 99% of the time, you won't be able to tell the two apart, but it's still a multiple thousand pound decision and clearly it's natural to want to feel you're getting value for money (which is why I don't like the mentality of 'oh any arguments either way must be fanboyism, if you weren't so biased you'd just say both cameras are completely equal).

When I had a 5D I was called a Canon fanboy even when I favoured Nikon, now I have a D800 I'm called a Nikon fanboy even when I favour Canon.

Says the person with a d800.
OP u will get much better feedback from a dedicated photography forum. Too many fanboys here tbh

Because it's not like having used both systems in full frame gives me any experience or knowledge to call upon in discussing both systems. If you'd actually read my post I support Canon a lot in my post but said ultimately for shooting the D800 won out, as it obviously would given it's the camera I ended up going with.

Also implying that a dedicated forum wouldn't have fanboys even worse than here is laughable.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I've ordered one, and seeing DPreviews's pro con list convinced me even more.

Pros

Excellent image quality; top-notch JPEG engine reduces the need for Raw
Low noise until the very highest sensitivities
Solid build quality, despite composite construction
Sharp, tilting 3-inch LCD has wide viewing angle
Quick startup, shot-to-shot speeds
DR, highlight, and shadow tone tools brighten shadows and restore highlights
Handy focus peaking feature
Numerous bracketing modes
In-camera Raw processing
Good quality kit lens
Wi-Fi allows easy photo sharing

Cons

AF speeds a bit slower that mirrorless competition
Areas of fine green detail can be 'mushy'
Awkwardly placed rear dial takes getting used-to
No electronic level
Camera cannot be controlled via Wi-Fi
Moiré, rolling shutter can be an issue in videos
Lacks HDR, panorama features
Can't access memory card when using tripod

6 of the 8 things on the Con list I don't care about.

 

[D.P.]

Aren't there still problems with fine detail when using the X sensor? The watercolour effect? It's a lot better than it was but its still there as far as I've read up.

Yes, and most of the problems can't really be fixed because of the nature of the colour folkier means there are larger distances between equal colored pixels which means the interpolation is often poor. (To be sure, the Bayer filter has its own problems wrt moire). Raw converters still have some way to go, and since the filter is unique it won't ever likely get the same support sadly.

A lot of people hype up the sensor but none of the dependable reviews have actually shown anything interesting. At best it is comparable to the Nikon 7100 sensor that also has no AA filter.

 

[GTRacer]

I tried the xpro1 but didn't like it. Didn't like the optical viewfinder as the lens covered the bottom 1/4 of the frame. Things like that would drive me nuts. Also the EVF was poor.So if I was to go mirrorless, it would have to be one with a good quality EVF.

That's what I like about the X-E2. I also like the fact it has good AF performance, although only with the centre point which is the only thing stopping me placing an order.

The thing about the X-E2 for me is, it's just so damn beautiful. It's like the Aston Martin of the camera world. I know that shouldn't matter, but the camera has a strange allure over me.

This Fuji would be a "toy" for me. I've tried the X-100 so I seen the viewfinder in it, and you are right, it's not great. It sucks actually compared to a DSLR, any DSLR.

Hence I am willing to forgo that aspect completely and get the X-M1. Seeing it can be had for £270 at the moment.

This post is way off topic, but I think it helps with RL's and An Exception's debate over numbers vs experience - here's my own experience with an X-Pro 1 and a bit of pixel peeping to see where it stacks up against a bunch of Nikons.

RE: The viewfinder. Leica viewfinders are a lot like the ones you find on the X100/XP1, and I actually prefer them to an SLR prism since it allows me to observe a scene as it is instead of what the lens sees. While being able to preview what your photo will look like is nice, I find having that more direct view makes composition easier and it allows me to work a scene more thoroughly. I don't really need to see what the lens sees since I have a fair idea of what the photo will look like in my head anyway. And unlike a DSLR, I can shoot with both eyes open and have the framelines 'float' across my entire field of vision. Finally, not having the viewfinder black out during each release helps a lot since I know exactly what moment I've captured, and again my viewing of a subject is as unimpeded as possible. There are downsides of course, the lens protruding into the VF is one (not much of an issue with the pancake lenses though), as is the parallax error when you focus closer, but those are also issues with rangefinders so they never bothered me that much. I only use my SLR for focal lengths above 50mm now, everything below that is taken care of with my XP1.

The 35mm is an excellent lens too:

Aren't there still problems with fine detail when using the X sensor? The watercolour effect? It's a lot better than it was but its still there as far as I've read up.

I would say that default conversions generally tend to be a bit more blurry than other similar sensors, you generally have to be a bit more aggressive with sharpening to get the best results. DPR's studio scene conversion seems to be out of date, so I put this together: top two are D800, D4, bottom two are X-Pro1 (DPR's conversion), D7000, and the patch overlaid is my own default conversion from Capture One (I get similar results with LR5 but I haven't dowloaded it to my PC yet):



The DPR conversion really looks like crap in comparison, I think that must be with an older version of ACR.