Canon 5D MKIII or Nikon D800

An Exception · 1 Jan 2014 at 03:22

Raymond Lin said:
I've ordered one, and seeing DPreviews's pro con list convinced me even more.

6 of the 8 things on the Con list I don't care about.

Cool, looking forward to some samples..

An Exception · 1 Jan 2014 at 03:23

@GTRacer

Can you post a raw file?

Then I'll stick it through LR5 and see how it looks in the latest acr.

GTRacer · 1 Jan 2014 at 03:30

I just grabbed one of the samples (the studio scene full of random stuff) they have on DPR, unless you want one from my own archives?

An Exception · 1 Jan 2014 at 03:34

No any raw will do, unless you have one that's funky that you don't mind sharing with the forum.

Columbo · 1 Jan 2014 at 11:44

Raymond Lin said:
I am looking at the X-M1 myself. At the moment there is a £100 cash back plus £100 Amazon vouchers.

Making the camera £250. Use the £100 to get a 35mm, and then claim another £100 cash back ?

WTF seriously, thanks for the heads up.

I've been looking for a lightweight walk about myself, the wife has a Samsung NX1000 with a 30mm f2 but I hate the handling of it although the lens is superb.

nolimit · 1 Jan 2014 at 12:44

Here is real world example of a RAW file from X-Pro1.
Took this pic at Westfield.

ISO 1600
Raw File

Raymond Lin · 1 Jan 2014 at 12:50

Columbo said:
WTF seriously, thanks for the heads up.

I've been looking for a lightweight walk about myself, the wife has a Samsung NX1000 with a 30mm f2 but I hate the handling of it although the lens is superb.

Yeah, basically use this form.

http://fujicashback.co.uk/

Make the Camera and lens order separate, which you need to anyway as you only get the Amazon credit in your account after dispatch of your camera.

So then print out Amazon receipt and use that form to claim £100 off camera.

Then use £100 credit to buy the 35mm lens.

Then use the form again to claim another £100 back.

You should end up with a X-M1 with 2 lenses for about £570.

There is also an offer if you get the X-Pro 1 and get a free lens.

http://free-xpro1-lens.co.uk/

They both have the same sensor so whether you want more features in the Pro 1 is up to you, and the difference in price is about £350.

Remember to buy it from Amazon, not a 3rd party seller !

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:48

Rojin said:
A new X-Pro1 must be on the way. The new X-E2 is arguably a better camera, the AF is certainly improved. Fuji are very unlikely to go full frame though. This would mean a new lens system and they're already losing money in their camera division, can they afford to take the gamble? The Sony A8, provably A9 if they're still going with it, is probably going to be quite interesting. I wonder what the deal with Nikon is with the sensors, if they do start going well with their own kit it would make sense for them to pull the plug.

Olympus I loved the look of, but was underwhelmed once I got to hold one. Reviews etc. have only cooled my GAS even more.

Most of Nikon's current camera line up uses Nikon sensors, D800 is just about the exception and is not actually any better than any of the pure Nikon design like in the D7100.

Raymond Lin · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:51

This is hearsay but I asked my buddy who's mate with the ambassador for Fuji in the UK and he tells me there are no replacement for the X-Pro 1 in the foreseeable future.

That could mean anything lol but I am guessing it'll be safe for about 3 months at least.

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:53

An Exception said:
I agree with the article from a consumer market perspective.
"Panasonic, Fujifilm and Olympus are all losing money on cameras"

While this is true, I heard that Fuji were actually making money on it's X system, even if it was losing money on camera's overall, although I can't say I've fact checked that.

Imo the writing is on the wall. There is or won't be any money in consumer camera's in the near to more long-term future. The camera on my 5s is actually pretty impressive, and I can see why people wouldn't bother with a crappy point and shoot.

Strangely I was surprised to hear Sony's smartphone lens/camera (QX10 etc.) was doing really well. I didn't expect that tbh.

Fuji and Sony have the potential to eat allot of Canikons professional cake market. The pro market is the only camera market with good margins and somewhat decent profits. It's also a market that should be immune to the iphone, at least for a good while.

If I was the CEO of Fuji/Sony I would double down on R&D and get out a mirrorless system that competed with Canikon from a performance perspective, and then go from there. If they don't it will be a slow death.

You keep saying things like this but the sales figures simply don't support what you wish to happen. All the camera manufacturers are making large losses and are on the verge of killing off their camera department, except canon, Nikon and Sony (although Sony aren't doing nearly as well as they had hoped, by now they claimed they would be in the #2 spot).

That isn't to say mirrorless won't be the future, it quite clearly will be. But you will mostly likely be shooting with a canon, Nikon or Sony mirrorless if you want full frame and an extensive lens line up. This might not happen for another 2 camera generations.

Rojin · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:54

D.P. said:
Most of Nikon's current camera line up uses Nikon sensors, D800 is just about the exception and is not actually any better than any of the pure Nikon design like in the D7100.

I thought the D7100 was a Toshiba tech sensor? Toshiba had been muted in connection with Canon as well on some rumour site.

Rojin · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:56

Raymond Lin said:
This is hearsay but I asked my buddy who's mate with the ambassador for Fuji in the UK and he tells me there are no replacement for the X-Pro 1 in the foreseeable future.

That could mean anything lol but I am guessing it'll be save for about 3 months at least.

The Fuji CEO said there isn't an X-Pro 1 replacement being worked on apparently. I think I'm going to wait and see what the 56 f1.2 and 40-150 f2.8 are like.

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:56

Raymond Lin said:
This is hearsay but I asked my buddy who's mate with the ambassador for Fuji in the UK and he tells me there are no replacement for the X-Pro 1 in the foreseeable future.

That could mean anything lol but I am guessing it'll be save for about 3 months at least.

The x-pro 1 didn't sell well be sense of its price. Fuji's best hope is to find a balance point between low cost and high performance that will allow people to have a Fuji mirrorless as a second smaller pocket cam.

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:58

Rojin said:
I thought the D7100 was a Toshiba tech sensor? Toshiba had been muted in connection with Canon as well on some rumour site.

Nikon design, fabbed by Toshiba.

Nikon have a huge sensor R&D department, they just don't own any fabrication facilities.

Rojin · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:02

D.P. said:
Nikon design, fabbed by Toshiba.

Nikon have a huge sensor R&D department, they just don't own any fabrication facilities.

Toshiba aren't going to build a bespoke fabrication facility for Nikon. The Nikon design will be based on the Toshiba tech the same way they had tweaked Sony sensors previously I'd imagine. Fabrication facilities are a huge cost, as Canon have their own I'd imagine it's part of the reason they are not in a hurry to change up their tech (if they can!).

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:13

Rojin said:
Toshiba aren't going to build a bespoke fabrication facility for Nikon. The Nikon design will be based on the Toshiba tech the same way they had tweaked Sony sensors previously I'd imagine. Fabrication facilities are a huge cost, as Canon have their own I'd imagine it's part of the reason they are not in a hurry to change up their tech (if they can!).

The sensor design is Nikon's, Toshiba manufactured the sensor and may have assisted in the design providing some technology while Nikon provided other. Sensors are very complex with lots of different components. Toshiba may not have directly fabbed the sensor but production of the chip was left to Toshiba.

It looks quite possible that th ADC design developed with the latest round of sony exmor sensors is still being used by Nikon in sensors that aren't fabbed by Sony (DR and behavior is very similar). Is is possible that Nikon shares IP with Sony on the ADC design so can use it elsewhere freely.

Lastly, the name printed on the chop doesn't necessarily tell you who designed what inside it, only hints at a manufacturer. The D4 sensor says Nikon on it, but Nikon don't have facing facilities.

Raymond Lin · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:20

D.P. said:
The x-pro 1 didn't sell well be sense of its price. Fuji's best hope is to find a balance point between low cost and high performance that will allow people to have a Fuji mirrorless as a second smaller pocket cam.

The X-M1 at its current price does that at £270.

That's £60 less than what I paid for my Olympus XZ-1 compact.

Rojin · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:21

What is being fabricated on the Toshiba lines will be based on what is technically possible to be fabricated using that tech. Nikon will have designed based on that. Toshiba would make no money building a bespoke fabrication facility selling sensors only to Nikon. Unless Nikon pay them very well of course!

An Exception · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:25

Rojin said:
Toshiba aren't going to build a bespoke fabrication facility for Nikon. The Nikon design will be based on the Toshiba tech the same way they had tweaked Sony sensors previously I'd imagine. Fabrication facilities are a huge cost, as Canon have their own I'd imagine it's part of the reason they are not in a hurry to change up their tech (if they can!).

I always thought it was similar to how AMD/Nvidia get TSMC to manufacture their architectures. However Sony/Toshiba obviously sell their own own designs.

Apparently Samsung currently have the best sensor tech.

D.P. · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:38

An Exception said:
I always thought it was similar to how AMD/Nvidia get TSMC to manufacture their architectures. However Sony/Toshiba obviously sell their own own designs.

Apparently Samsung currently have the best sensor tech.

It is much like that, however there are lots of different components to a sensor so different parts may be based on design provided by different parties.
Toshiba do design and manufacture sensors, but there is no evidence they design and sale APS-c sensors
http://www.toshiba.com/taec/adinfo/cmos/

Nikon have released several 24MP sensors that all perform very similarly and yet physically look different, the 5300 looks to be made by Sony, the 7100 and 5200 by Toshiba, and the D3200 says Nikon on it. Some of these are physically different in size. The reason performance is similar is because of common design elements. The small differences maybe down to things like the quality of the silicon substrate or fabing process.

It is actually been noted that a bit like CPUs get better at overclocking the older into production they are, the cmos sensors get better as well and maybe produce lower noise in later models.