Car issues, engine failure.

[adam cool dude]

I know a guy that used to do development work at lotus who at the time was working on jlr engines. He said they informed them time again that there were inherent design flaws after can failures and crank failures but jlr refused to do anything due to cost and timescales.

Recently got chatting to another development firm who are doing dev work on jlrs latest engine, jlr have purchased the engine from BMW, but have made some modifications to it and trying to increase the power by a good margin but the engines keep failing, jlr however know different and refuse to accept there's an issue.. the test house just chuckle, warranties incoming

JLR have been a company that have had the R&D budget of a packet of crisps for donkey years.

The F-Type is basically a cut and shut XK from the mid 00's underneath and you can still buy one of those today!

Even "modern" jags from the 90's were based on rear ends from the 1960's.

It is a shame really because JLR's design ethos of making cars out of aluminium is really cool and they are all generally really light compared to the competition.

 

[Nasher]

I know a guy that used to do development work at lotus who at the time was working on jlr engines. He said they informed them time again that there were inherent design flaws after can failures and crank failures but jlr refused to do anything due to cost and timescales.

Recently got chatting to another development firm who are doing dev work on jlrs latest engine, jlr have purchased the engine from BMW, but have made some modifications to it and trying to increase the power by a good margin but the engines keep failing, jlr however know different and refuse to accept there's an issue.. the test house just chuckle, warranties incoming

This attitude seems to be throughout the whole car tbh. AKA a bodge job with a massive markup.

We'll just take this BMW engine and put more power through it, without doing anything else, in a really heavy car. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[Simon]

I'm sure Jonny C will be in here soon telling us it's not a known issue, nobody has ever encountered it, the design is flawless and it's clearly your fault for...inadequate servicing?

It’s the Ford lion engine inherited from the PAG days. Very sensitive to the right oil. And why no one should go away from the 5W-30. But some people put the 0W-30 in by mistake

 

[Simon]

These engines are basket cases, the petrol one isn't much better.

The petrol diesel engine ?? The lion engine was a ford PSA project. Nothing to do with the ingeniums

 

[Nasher]

Then it must be Jag and LR dealers putting the wrong oil in, since that is where most took them for servicing.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Shocking for a car of that value, i can only imagine it is over complicated which introduces more problems that can happen.

My dad has a 20 year old French Turbo Diesel van that i kid you not, has never broken down in its life and its had a very hard life on horrid bumpy roads.

Problem is you are comparing an old French turbo diesel to a… old French Turbo diesel. The 2.7 and 3.0 are PSA heritage.

 

[JonRGV250]

Then it must be Jag and LR dealers putting the wrong oil in, since that is where most took them for servicing.

You’re not actually being serious are you?
It’s often hard to tell.

 

[Simon]

You’re not actually being serious are you?
It’s often hard to tell.

He lacks the ability to critically think and just comes up with the most random conclusions.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Snapped crank is just an Opie oils advice filter.

 

[Nasher]

You’re not actually being serious are you?
It’s often hard to tell.

The Jag/LR dealers aren't any better than the manufacturer tbh so it wouldn't be surprising.

 

[Simon]

Would be interested in how the OP car was serviced rather than just random opinions

 

[jpaul]

We supplied an engine dynamometer with a Jag 3.0 diesel to an overseas customer. Part of the test procedure I had to carry out for the annual warranty was to run the thing through a full rpm range pull and spit out the torque / power curve.

I thought his comment was interesting - if an annual stress test can give an indication (maybe unusual noise/harmonics too) if somethings up in the oil distribution,
rotated bearing shell starving oil on the shaft seems to be common failure

 

[lordrobs]

I thought his comment was interesting - if an annual stress test can give an indication (maybe unusual noise/harmonics too) if somethings up in the oil distribution,
rotated bearing shell starving oil on the shaft seems to be common failure

This was in a training environment rather than an R&D one. My testing was simply to show that the equipment is working as intended and that the engine is outputting reasonable results that the trainees can then look at. It was pretty low tech TBH.

My biggest issue with that particular equipment was the water supply and environment. We'd quoted for supplying the water tanks but shipping those from the UK was deemed too expensive so they got a local company in Oman to fabricate them with.... er.... interesting results. Year 1 warranty / test I went to check them over and there was about 2mm of sand settled at the bottom of the tank I re-wrote the pre-use check procedure onsite and basically told them here are the new conditions for your equipment warranty

All fun and games, quite miss my trips there TBH. Certainly kept me on my toes.

Sorry for the massive off topic

 

[Simon]

I thought his comment was interesting - if an annual stress test can give an indication (maybe unusual noise/harmonics too) if somethings up in the oil distribution,
rotated bearing shell starving oil on the shaft seems to be common failure

He was doing dyno warranty work not engine warranty. What’s going to change with oil distribution, the oil ways won’t change size with time.

But yes you need the right oil so the bearing doesn’t seize and break the crank. Alternatively it could be a BMW S55 where the crank hub just disconnects from the crank

History of the Lion stems back from packaging and PSA wanting the engine to fit in their cars so the crankshaft was made shorter. The mains were made narrower.

Bearing chat and everyone being an expert is very common on BMW forums too. especially the S85 V10 and S65 V8.

 

[jpaul]

He was doing dyno warranty work not engine warranty. What’s going to change with oil distribution, the oil ways won’t change size with time.

in the thread context sounded liked the annual warranty&dyno would be doing something to check engine warranty -
OOC previously watched this about jag 2,7 oil way interference https://youtu.be/0s-73gspB4w?t=1146 - who needs netflix.

 

[inflames]

Would be interested in how the OP car was serviced rather than just random opinions

Full service history, main dealer by the first owner, 2nd owner used a Indy garage, 3rd owner (me) one by the VW garage I purchase it from and rest including cam belt etc at my local Jag specialist. All have been done annually.

 

[lordrobs]

in the thread context sounded liked the annual warranty&dyno would be doing something to check engine warranty -
OOC previously watched this about jag 2,7 oil way interference https://youtu.be/0s-73gspB4w?t=1146 - who needs netflix.

Cautious of going too far OT but as you've asked... these were two static engine test rigs. I.E. engine permanently fixed to a water brake dynamometer for their trainees to learn about engine testing. As such the engine was part of the supplied equipment and covered under warranty. My job was to fix anything they reported as broken and prove that everything else wasn't

Reading how picky they are on oil I'm glad I got the dyno manufacturer to specify the oil used and got them to do the servicing!