Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

cheesyboy said:
The hormonal or genetic (IANA Doctor) influences that caused her to develop as a girl (in terms of vagina, internal testes - rather like ovaries etc) would also affect her in other ways that would mean she is not fully male. This may be height, muscle mass, bone density, lung capacity etc.
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Most guys aren't as masculine as she is. The above attempts to make her out as disadvantaged. She isn't. Would you want to compensate other men who aren't as masculine as her for other medical reasons? Why single out a birth defect with the development of her penis then?

Caster-_Semenya2.jpg
 
Clarkson said:
Seems a bit unfair if its purely naturally occuring :confused:

Should Bolt be penalised because he naturally has longer legs than most and perhaps more fast twitch fibres?

Shock horror as a 'better' physical specimen performs better.
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If Caster Semenya is genetically male, but with an intersex gender that makes her look female, then she shouldn't be competing against women. She has no womb or, ovaries, but has internal testes leading to male levels of testosterone. She's far more successful when this high level of testosterone is not restricted by drugs. It does seem that rather than being a woman with high natural testosterone, she's actually a male with female sexual attributes ie intersex.
 
Steampunk said:
If Caster Semenya is genetically male, but with an intersex gender that makes her look female, then she shouldn't be competing against women. She has no womb or, ovaries, but has internal testes leading to male levels of testosterone. She's far more successful when this high level of testosterone is not restricted by drugs. It does seem that rather than being a woman with high natural testosterone, she's actually a male with female sexual attributes ie intersex.
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doodah said:
Feel sorry for her, all she wants to do is run and all we talk about is her hormone levels and gender.
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She can run all she likes.

If she wants to compete in a restricted contest for a lot of fame and money, the question of what the restrictions should be and whether or not she meets them is very relevant.

Would you, for example, react the same way to a heavyweight boxer wanting to compete in the flyweight class? Would you feel sorry for them because all they want to do is box and all we talk about is their weight?
 
G-MAN2004 said:
Yeah, but where do you draw the line? In this day and age you can change your gender on the fly and everyone has to respect that otherwise they're 'intolerant'.

I've heard they're changing the prize money for women's tennis so that it is equal to the men's, so what is stopping a man claiming he is a woman just to have an easier time at winning the same amount of money?
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I wonder how many hours a man trains to play tennis compared to a woman?
 
Tefal said:
No woman is ever going to break the 100m sprint record either as it was set before drugs testing was mandatory:p
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Wasn't Joyner found to be totally drug free by the best drug experts at the time or has more proof been found .

Ahh HGH , didnt realise they couldnt detect it around that time.
 
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Washout said:
For reference the current 'womens' 800m world record holder
qk2vLo

https://goo.gl/images/qk2vLo
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this sort of stuff just makes a mockery of the sport, seems pretty plausible that she was doping

Semenya probably could have beaten that time at the Olympics if she'd put the effort in but she didn't need to and probably didn't want to add to the controversy around her competing anyway.
 
dowie said:
well there seem to be a few positions on this

one is that we shouldn't exclude minorities and therefore intersex athletes should just go ahead and compete as women if they choose to identify as women

another is that women are a protected category, gender segregation exists to protect women and to allow them to compete, someone who isn't really a 'woman' shouldn't therefore be competing in the female category (I guess at international level you could have an intersex and trans category but at the local club level it would probably have to be the men's category for anyone who isn't fully female)

lastly there is the compromise position that says we allow intersex people to compete but they'll either need their testes removed or will need to take testosterone suppressing medication - this was the case perviously until in 2015 when an Indian athlete went to the CAS and got a ruling to stop this.

strangely enough when Caster was undergoing this treatment her times suddenly became much slower - notice in the below clip where she is interviewed after Lynsey she blames that recent performance issue on an injury etc.. but seemingly miraculously after the CAS made it's silly decision then Caster was suddenly back on top form in the 2016 Olympics

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S/He sounds like Fernando Alonso! :D
 
Nasher said:
Just the muscle shape/tone. Theres no way you would say that is a woman. I mean...they even have a "bulge"...
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this whole farce came about because sex testing is now seen as wrong/un-PC etc.. so they needed an alternative/compromise to stop this happening so decided to limit testosterone... but were very careful not to call it sex testing - problem is when the Indian athlete challenged it one of the things brought up was that this testosterone testing only applies to women athletes not male ones. (well of course it does because it is basically a proxy for a sex test but they can't say that)

also, interesting, transgender athletes can compete as women too and they don't need to be post op

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...tes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

Transgender athletes should be allowed to compete in the Olympics and other international events without undergoing sex reassignment surgery, according to new guidelines adopted by the IOC.

International Olympic Committee medical officials said on Sunday they changed the policy to adapt to current scientific, social and legal attitudes on transgender issues.

The guidelines are designed as recommendations – not rules or regulations – for international sports federations and other bodies to follow and should apply for this year’s Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

“I don’t think many federations have rules on defining eligibility of transgender individuals,” IOC medical director Dr Richard Budgett said. “This should give them the confidence and stimulus to put these rules in place.”

Under the previous IOC guidelines, approved in 2003, athletes who transitioned from male to female or vice versa were required to have reassignment surgery followed by at least two years of hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete.

Now, surgery will no longer be required, with female-to-male transgender athletes eligible to take part in men’s competitions “without restriction”.

Meanwhile, male-to-female transgender athletes will need to demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition.
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So I guess if we've got both trans and intersex athletes competing as 'women' then the testosterone tests become rather important and the previous CAS ruling that allowed the recent farce in Rio wasn't helpful at all, it is rather a good thing that the IAAF now have a study to use in their appeal.

Personally I still don't see that it is particularly fair, there is more to the male advantage in athletics than just T levels and trans and intersex athletes still benefit from this, perhaps it may stop them from dominating the medals table at the highest levels but it is basically still just sweeping the problem under the carpet as you'll still have them getting into national squads etc.. at the expense of actual women who'd have otherwise had that place/opportunity.
 
So basically some bloke can stick a wig on and bash a woman's brains out in a boxing ring in the name of political correctness? Sounds totally safe.
 
What are the feminists and "SJWs" having to say about all this? :p

I guess it's backed them in to a corner. If it's allowed to go on womans sport is ruined, if they speak against it they look like hypocrites.
 
Clarkson said:
Accept my apologies chaps, I thought she was female but just with higher testosterone. I shall learn to read ;)

So if she is 'intersex'...where exactly can 'she' compete?
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She can compete with the men with her current level of test, she won't be competitive, she will lose, her times aren't anything special in the mens category. Her other option is to compete with women and maintain a female level of testosterone, she did this for a while before and her numbers weren't competitive with top female runners.

She's a bad runner, she doesn't even seem to have good form, she isn't a great athlete, she's just a dude with female genitalia who due to that, not excellence of training, not excellence of ability or talent, not dedication, just a technicality can outrun women easily.

I was born with terrible knees, I can't compete in sport, I was actually really damn good at multiple sports up till my knees absolutely went at 15, that was what I was born with. 99.999% of the worlds population can't compete at a top level in sport. It's not a god given right that everyone can compete or maintain a career in sport of some kind. LIke I said, with male test levels she has poor times compared to men, with female test levels she has poor times compared to women. She's not a born athlete, she doesn't even have to try hard with male test levels to beat women, it's not on skill, not on training harder than anyone else. Nothing that makes an Olympian what they are, heart, dedication, digging deep and being the best, she doesn't represent any of that. She beats women with no effort at all.

For me as I started with, she should compete with man naturally or reduce her test levels for at least a year then compete with women. Hell she would still have an advantage in frame, musculature, gaining muscle is harder than maintaining it... yet last time she went on the test reducing hormones her performances went well below the best women.

Yes it's unfortunate for her, she doesn't get gifted an easy life beating women who simply can't compete with someone with increased test levels, so what, I can't run in the olympics either due to what I was born with. Because people feel uncomfortable about what she is and excluding her for that reason from a competition someone should just get an easy mode win. At the same time entirely devaluing the sport because actual women can't even come close to competing with her? Sport has been segregated down hormonal lines forever because women simply can't match men physically. We called it mens/womens, because that was easier but the defining factor in performance is testosterone between the two groups. If you renamed the events by max test levels allowed, nothing in the normal competitions would change, the only change would be those with abnormal test levels would have to compete in the correct category.
 
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