charles and camilla attacked

[chumpit]

Quick question, Why aern't the National Student Union getting shaft with paying damages?
Surely if they organised and headed the protest they must be liable for the damages caused?

d even then that gets you a pretty crappy quality of life.

ok am i missing something?
The whole point of uni is to get a top class education, not to spend 4 years in luxuary.

maybe they should increase the pass marka nd make it more difficult to pass? forcing students to actually spend their time actually completing the point of uni.
And all this ******** about not enough time to have a part time job whilst at uni is pure lazyness, I have work in excess of 40 odd hours when doing my hnc and a level maths and physics (both at the same time).

 

[SniperDude]

what was the security team thinking bringing the prince anywhere near
protests that have been violent for most of the day in a car the sticks out like that does.

 

[Glaucus]

UoB will be ~6700 and uwe ~6400, thats what they said on the local radio today.

 

[Nitefly]

Quick question, Why aern't the National Student Union getting shaft with paying damages?
Surely if they organised and headed the protest they must be liable for the damages caused?

Because it would be ludicrous to make someone liabile for the tort of another with such a loose proximity and minimal legal causation.

 

[Castiel]

I'm not entirely sure how this is going to work in practice, but if fees are indeed going to be £9k a year, and I know accomodation in Bristol costs ~£4000... then plus food, bills and other essentials at £1000 minimum... you are looking at a £14,000 loan a year just to get by, that's not being able to buy anything or, god forbid, enjoy yourself in other ways.

So is the basic loan really going to come in at £14k a year?!

So you want the Taxpayer of which the average taxpayer earns just £24k a year to also fund your lifestyle as well as your degree. Seems a little unfair.

Interestingly as the tuition fees are not payable up front or until you have graduated AND earning more than £21k (linked to earnings) then funding your current living expenses would be somewhat easier surely, especially for the poorest 25% of students who will also have access to a greater range of Grants and Bursaries, this is even more likely in Universities charging more than £6k in tuition fees as they are required to offer greater access to those from poorer backgrounds.

 

[Nitefly]

UoB will be ~6700 and uwe ~6400, thats what they said on the local radio today.

Interesting, I've heard £9000 from staff. You may well be right.

 

[neil3k]

I did, yes, for financial reasons mainly (Though it was handy the course I wanted was offered locally). The way the system used to be was such that because it was so means tested I was entitled to very little *and* had to pay my fees out of my maintenance loan. So I stayed at home instead.

Today, it would be very different - there would be more money available to me if I wanted to move away to Uni as I wouldnt have needed to pay my fees up front.

Effectively the maths were as follows - some of my friends qualified for the full rate loan *and* a £1k grant *and* the LEA paid the fees for them. So, the available cash per year for them was a £4k loan, £1k grant = £5k. Whereas I was entitled to the £3k loan if I went away, no grant, and out of that I had to find £1125 to pay the fees, meaning I'd be left with £1875. Over 3 grand worse off.

So you can see why I made the decision I did

I did the same thing.

 

[growse]

Where are the protests for the fact that 20% of 11-year-olds have sub-standard literacy?

Which is more important? Higher education fees, or getting our primary education right?

Or is this whole thing just a massive selfish "I'm entitled to the world for free!" thing?

 

[Castiel]

Because it would be ludicrous to make someone liabile for the tort of another with such a loose proximity and minimal legal causation.

Agreed.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Only people who earn above the average wage in this country will ever pay the loan back, so why do the dossers even care?

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I don't think recent events have lead to students as a whole being held in particularly high regard and this certainly won't help them. I feel sorry for the ones who are actually there to study and better themselves because everyone thinks you're all a bunch of ***** now tbh.

 

[chumpit]

Because it would be ludicrous to make someone liabile for the tort of another with such a loose proximity and minimal legal causation.

Surely they have some liablity: in organising, providing transport in most cases, flags/ banners.
Heres and example. If i was to organise a dos attack on a bank, if i provided the program, the plans and the means. Would i not be liable for the damaged caused even if i didnt personally undertake such action? yet the union did provide means method and plans which lead to criminal damage in the thousands of pounds and yet you seem to think that they are not liable, but people arrested were actual NUS members?

 

[Nitefly]

So you want the Taxpayer of which the average taxpayer earns just £24k a year to also fund your lifestyle as well as your degree.

My scholarship does that for me thankfully but ultimately yes I think they should do a greater extent than the current proposals... although I'm not too sure about the wording of that so don't jump at my neck for it

In other words, if a loan just covers the fees then it's crap. You simply cannot live off air in a magical building in the sky. That's talking necessities. Even if does cover necessities, I still don't think young people should by default have to life a lifestyle of the most minimalistic quality - there needs to be a provisional loan facility to allow a student to live, or it's on to more burdensome loans like some of my friends had to take out.

 

[Dolph]

Because it would be ludicrous to make someone liabile for the tort of another with such a loose proximity and minimal legal causation.

Not when they organise the event it wouldn't be... Especially as this is the third or fourth one that has descended into violence and criminality, not to mention all the highly undemocratic and technically criminal sit in protests....

 

[GarethSouthgate]

I say raise the fees to £11k a year and cut most degrees back to 2 years full-time, no need for long summer breaks at all imo.

 

[Castiel]

Only people who earn above the average wage in this country will ever pay the loan back, so why do the dossers even care?

They don't, it's just another thing to moan about or riot over and engage in their favourite pastime of attacking public buildings and Police Officers.

 

[Nitefly]

Surely they have some liablity: in organising, providing transport in most cases, flags/ banners.
Heres and example. If i was to organise a dos attack on a bank, if i provided the program, the plans and the means. Would i not be liable for the damaged caused even if i didnt personally undertake such action?

Then you would be liable under enterprise liability, which is a similar sort of liability that exists for public affray and riot (the latter of which has a very surprising penalty... 12 years imprisonment IIRC even if you didn't commit any violence).

As they didn't instigate any violence in any way, no, of course they cannot be held responsible. They are simply too far removed from the acts of violence.

 

[growse]

My scholarship does that for me thankfully but ultimately yes I think they should do a greater extent than the current proposals... although I'm not too sure about the wording of that so don't jump at my neck for it

In other words, if a loan just covers the fees then it's crap. You simply cannot live off air in a magical building in the sky. That's talking necessities. Even if does cover necessities, I still don't think young people should by default have to life a lifestyle of the most minimalistic quality - there needs to be a provisional loan facility to allow a student to live, or it's on to more burdensome loans like some of my friends had to take out.

I still don't see with the loan->fees, job->living costs arrangement. It's what thousands of people already do. I was only at uni for 24 weeks of the year, which left a little less than half (minus bank holidays) to cover my living costs the rest of the time.

 

[rare]

Unbelievable displays of violence in London, whether their intentions honourable or not this will have lost students massive amounts of public support. Defacing public property, trying to force their way in to buildings (I.e the treasury) defacing Winstons statue,attacking the future king of the country... The list goes on and on. Quite frankly I don't think they are getting a bad deal from the government,their reaction is not proportionate at all. You want to have an education further than what the state provides, fair enough, pay for it after. Deal with it. It's a personal choice. I would bet that over half of all uni students leave uni with a degree not worth a toss, and from my experience of people at uni a vast majority go there for social not education reasons. The government have done the right thing.

 

[JBuk]

Surely they have some liablity: in organising, providing transport in most cases, flags/ banners.
Heres and example. If i was to organise a dos attack on a bank, if i provided the program, the plans and the means. Would i not be liable for the damaged caused even if i didnt personally undertake such action?

if you organised a stag night, printed t-shirts, drove the minibus to the pub and then half of them got into a fight and smashed the place up should you be liable?