charles and camilla attacked

[Amp34]

It's changed. It's always been the case for everyone who paid more than the lower fee's which were increased a few years back.

Actually I think (although could be wrong, I went to uni the year before the rises but graduated with those that went the first year) that the initial year of the £3k fees didn't have a non means tested maintenence loan. It was brought in the next year however.

I agree with you almost fully however. It's unsustainable to not increase fees with the number of people wanting to go to uni.

Unfortunately that means they will have a much bigger debt, but then again I will be in around £30k worth of debt when I graduate next year so... However I've been lucky that I've had an extra year at uni. Unfortunately for future students they will probably have to do that extra year to get a good job too, with that extra year probably going up a lot (how many unis are really going to offer masters for less than an undergrad course?), I feel for those that are going to have to pay £10k for a year.

AFAIK, the system up until now including the present 'top up fees', the loan barely covered or simply didn't cover accomadation if you wanted to live anywhere remotely reasonable.

I know of a fair few students who had to take out loans in addition to student loans to manage. The vast majority of people I know have had some financial assistance from parents.

That has nothing to do with the tuition fee loan however. Most students won't see the money for the fees. They will complete a form and a piece of paper will be sent to them saying they have paid their fees and will now owe the SLC another £3k.

By my calculations someone earning 30k a year will pay back £67.50 a month. That's peanuts.

But when you add it on to all the other bits you have to pay... I looked up the take home pay of £35k recently (with student loan) and it was £24k...

 

[meghatronic]

What a load of tosh, you really have no idea what an imbecile you sound like.

You Sir are one step away from being more right wing than Nick Griffin.

Go and read what right wing means. Or read this.

And then go and look at the BNP's education policies (specifically "The abolition of fees and the restoration of full grants to university students studying proper subjects") and realise how - in this thread - your comparison is quite humerous .

 

[VFM Addict]

The fees are going to be UP TO £9k a year - very few Uni's will charge this, most will be around £4-6k. I suspect only places like Oxbridge will go for the full £9k.

I thought the second vote today made the minimum £6k.

 

[Castiel]

My scholarship does that for me thankfully but ultimately yes I think they should do a greater extent than the current proposals... although I'm not too sure about the wording of that so don't jump at my neck for it

In other words, if a loan just covers the fees then it's crap. You simply cannot live off air in a magical building in the sky. That's talking necessities. Even if does cover necessities, I still don't think young people should by default have to life a lifestyle of the most minimalistic quality - there needs to be a provisional loan facility to allow a student to live, or it's on to more burdensome loans like some of my friends had to take out.

You have a point I agree, you cannot live on thin air, however it is not solely up to the taxpayer to fund living expenses. Here is a link explaining the proposals including maintenance loans and increased non repayable grants etc.....

http://www.bis.gov.uk/studentfinance

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/higher-education/students/student-finance/myth-buster

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/higher-education/students/student-finance/willetts-statement

Give it a read and see what you think.

 

[meghatronic]

ignore

 

[chumpit]

if you organised a stag night, printed t-shirts, drove the minibus to the pub and then half of them got into a fight and smashed the place up should you be liable?

Yes if you are the person in charge of sad stag night, as the person in charge it is your responsiblity to maksure thoses that you have enabled to drink act in the correct manner.
Another example, if i drive four people to work i am responsible for them, if they dont wear their seat belts i am responisble and suffer the consequences and can have criminal actions raised against me in case of an accident.

the NUS ORganised, funded, arragned transport and gave banners with mottos that may have inflammed the situation. To say that they are not liable for what happened is to say an employer that refuses to give his employers PPE isnt liable when all hell breaks loose.

But when you add it on to all the other bits you have to pay... I looked up the take home pay of £35k recently (with student loan) and it was £24k...

Am i the only one to spot the irony here?
A student complaining about the tax payer not wanting to pay for their uni, complaining about having to pay for others university, all we need to do is divide by zero and my head is blown.

 

[[TW]Fox]

In other words, if a loan just covers the fees then it's crap.

There are two completely seperate loans. The fees loan is paid directly to the University, not you. You never see the money.

 

[steve-h]

If he then spends the next 40 years working for £20k a year, he will not pay the SLC a penny. His loan will NEVER be repaid.

Isn't that rewarding the people that go to uni for 'uni life'? I thought that was what we wanted to cut out?

Meanwhile everyone else gets shafted for thousands?

 

[JBuk]

Yes if you are the person in charge of sad stag night, as the person in charge it is your responsiblity to maksure thoses that you have enabled to drink act in the correct manner.
Another example, if i drive four people to work i am responsible for them, if they dont wear their seat belts i am responisble and suffer the consequences and can have criminal actions raised against me in case of an accident.

the NUS ORganised, funded, arragned transport and gave banners with mottos that may have inflammed the situation. To say that they are not liable for what happened is to say an employer that refuses to give his employers PPE isnt liable when all hell breaks loose.

In the first case you are not responsible, you can not be held accounable for other peoples actions in most cases

You are responsible in the second case because the law puts you, as the driver, in charge of their safety.

You can't compare providing people with providing people with banners and mottos for what should have been a peaceful protest but ends up with some violence to employers breaking the law by not providing their employees with PPE

the first instance is students making their own decisions to break the law without any coercion from the NUS, the second is a health and safety issue for which the employer is responisble

 

[growse]

Isn't that rewarding the people that go to uni for 'uni life'? I thought that was what we wanted to cut out?

Meanwhile everyone else gets shafted for thousands?

At the same time, it enables the people who go into academia, or the research sciences (they *really* don't pay well) to not be burdened with the thought of how they'll repay their loan. Their education gets paid for by the taxpayer. As it should. Because they're useful to society.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Isn't that rewarding the people that go to uni for 'uni life'? I thought that was what we wanted to cut out?

Meanwhile everyone else gets shafted for thousands?

I agree - if anything they should remove all the threshold stuff and charge everyone but that isn't going to happen.

 

[4T5]

I think they should add up how much all the damage cost & then add it on there next term fees, Damn Hippys.

 

[meghatronic]

I agree - if anything they should remove all the threshold stuff and charge everyone but that isn't going to happen.

We need to make compromises. It isn't equal, but it's a long road.

 

[Nexus]

These people are this country's future - Supposedly

I'm pretty sure he was one of the ones I did see get arrested.
I'm sure it's on the repeated BBC news footage as well, he is forced to the ground by Riot Officers.

 

[zuludawn]

Perhaps the bleeding heart students may want to pay a percentage back as well for the bloody massive police bill that will be passed onto us the tax payer for there peaceful demonstration over the last 3 weeks or so. As for defacing National buildings nice one, tourists will love that, cause this is England, im so proud!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rare]

He might just be one person in a group of thousands but that picture makes me so angry. He should be ashamed and so should his family.

 

[steve-h]

He might just be one person in a group of thousands but that picture makes me so angry. He should be ashamed and so should his family.

Maybe he doesn't agree with governments sending hundreds of thousands of people to war, spending trillions on said war... and then saying "lol well we can't afford to pay for this uni thing anymore, teeheee!"

But I agree... a terrible way of communicating whatever message he had.

 

[Amp34]

Am i the only one to spot the irony here?
A student complaining about the tax payer not wanting to pay for their uni, complaining about having to pay for others university, all we need to do is divide by zero and my head is blown.

Re-read my post, I wasn't complaining about the tax payer no paying for uni* and wasn't complaining specifically about paying for other students... There may have been a healthy dose of sarcasm in there as well.

*Well I was but in the sense suggesting that uni is almost worthless for a large proportion of people that go. Either they shouldn't need a degree to get the job they get anyway or at the other end of the scale an undergrad degree now isn't good enough due to the number of people that do them. Essentially they have to get in debt to get a good job, but will need to get into even more debt to actually get that job as an undergrad degree isn't good enough any more.

 

[Nitefly]

You have a point I agree, you cannot live on thin air, however it is not solely up to the taxpayer to fund living expenses. Here is a link explaining the proposals including maintenance loans and increased non repayable grants etc.....

http://www.bis.gov.uk/studentfinance

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/higher-education/students/student-finance/myth-buster

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/higher-education/students/student-finance/willetts-statement

Give it a read and see what you think.

The relevant section is this:

Q - The changes to higher education funding mean I can no longer afford to go to university

A – It’s important to remember that the cost of tuition does not have to be paid up front. You only start to repay your tuition loan when you are earning more than £21,000. Support – in the form of loans or grants - is also available to help cover living costs. This means that under the new arrangements, most full-time students should have the same amount of financial support available as current students. And students from lower income families will get more non-repayable maintenance grant support to help towards living costs than they do now.

That means, as I expected, that people are not going to be borrowing 'merely' £9000 a year as some people are suggesting. I expect more people will be taking out an additional ~£3000 loan availible to them (based on what people currently can get), which as aformentioned covers nothing.

My point being that if people are just above the threshold for a grant that will pay for their accomadation, they are going to have to fork out of their own pocket, or their parents to pay for their living expenses. Some people genuinely cannot afford to go to university without taking out additional loans or working 4 days a week because their parents earn a reasonable amount but have vast outgoing of their own so they cannot afford to supplement their child.

This has admittedly always with a problem with student loans - they just don't cover enough.

There are two completely seperate loans. The fees loan is paid directly to the University, not you. You never see the money.

See above.

 

[Amp34]

Maybe he doesn't agree with governments sending hundreds of thousands of people to war, spending trillions on said war... and then saying "lol well we can't afford to pay for this uni thing anymore, teeheee!"

But I agree... a terrible way of communicating whatever message he had.

Trillians? I think you'll find it's around £10 billion max. Nowhere near trillains.