Check Your 4090's 12vhpwr Connectors To Make Sure They are in Pristine Condition

[EastCoastHandle]

There have been a lot of reports coming out that people having melted connectors. Be it both from the cable and gpu. Or from either the gpu or the cable.


I am not sure if anyone here knows who JonnyGuru is but he's a respected PSU expert. JonnyGuru is the PSU as Kingpin is to EVGA Video Cards.
I believe he's working for Corsair's PSU division now. And, apparently these melting connectors were well known.


The worst way to bend the cables is horizontally. Although vertically is can also be bad. Horizontal bends comes when you pull the cable to the gpu from the top down. Or when you vertically mount the GPU.



Here is an example of a vertical mounted video card. With the cables on top of the GPU. Notice that the cables are bending horizontally.



Here is a bend that is vertical. Look at how sharp this bend is. Notice this was done because it was the only way to close the side panel to the case.



This is how the cables look. Bent horizontally.




This is what happened after using them. Still in the same orientation as out of the box.







The above pic is showing how 1 particular cable in the middle looks hotter then the others. Notice the bend.




Here you can see what the temps are like using the adapter. And yes, that's hot.



TO ANYONE WHO HAS HAD A 4090 FOR AT LEAST 1 WEEK:
Check your cable connector and your gpu connector to see if there are any early warning signs of melting. Also check to see any discoloration, issues, etc with the pins themselves. Even though you don't see smoke. Try to smell the connects to confirm. It is almost impossible to use these cables without bending them inside of your case.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

What's interseting is that from the few I've seen so far with this issue it looks like they took great care of their cable management.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

What do you think their priority was while cable managing. Connection integrity or aesthetics?

Yeah, people doing "cable management" bend the living crap out of their cables trying to get them to "look" tidy, I'd say they would be much more likely to have a problem over people who just fit the cables how they fall and leave them like that

my 3080 cables go around the end of the card and then through the motherboard plate and it looks quite tidy, but it only works like that because the FE card has the connector already canted 45 degrees from the PCB instead of 90 degrees perpendicular to the PCB the away AIB's do it.

Perhaps they were reassured by Nv Senior Technical Marketing Manager who is also a PCIe-Sig member to Jays2cent. That they had nothing to worry about. They tested those cables and had absolutely no issues (I will even assume they did so inside a closed case). No need to worry it just works, man!!! How ironic if you ask me.

No were in that letter does it state to make sure that you "don't bend those cables". I find culpability in this letter.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Nvidia have been so successful with pulling the wool over our eyes it has now because the default MO.

Loose connection testing by GALAX with a 12VHPWR connector. Loose connection = 100C+ Good connecttion = 60-70C That's while the connector is pulling a sustained 1530W load. There's more here and it is possible that bending is not the main issue here, force contact is.
...
That's just 1 test done by GALAX and it was a sustained load for 10-15 mins. In PCI-SIG's testing, the melting occurred around 10-30 hours of prolonged runs. GALAX will have a more detailed video on this coming out soon. Hopefully, we can get to the bottom of this.
...
Highly likely that's the case and based on GALAX's tests, the bending issue is being blown out by the press.
...
We should not have to worry about the specific orientation of a cable to this degree. It should just work without issues.
...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585257428291325958

It is my opinion that the best way to use a 4090 moving forward is to use a PSU that is ATX 3.0 spec'd with a Gen5 connector. And avoid using any adapters.
I am not sure that the gen5 cabling comes with the psu yet. Even still that has to be scrutinized after this fiasco.

But the question remains if consumers actually find this creditable or not. I am sure there are some who simply fine this as all waffling about.









PSU Example

Doing it this way comes at an added cost. A new PSU and cables specific for 12vhprw isn't cheap when you factor in cost for a 4090 as well.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

or just don't bend the connector near the pins... and the people saying oh look the pins come out, yea after they strip away all the hard material protecting the wires.....

Or...just don't buy adapters when you should be buying a ATX 3.0 PSU with Gen 5 connector support.

What connector looks like this? with bare wires and no sheath...

Cheaply made connectors.

Dear PCI-SIG Member,
Please be advised that PCI-SIG has become aware that some implementations of the 12VHPWR connectors and assemblies have demonstrated thermal variance, which could result in safety issues under certain conditions. Although PCI-SIG specifications provide necessary information for interoperability, they do not attempt to encompass all aspects of proper design, relying on numerous industry best-known methods and standard design practices. As the PCI-SIG workgroups include many knowledgeable experts in the field of connector and system design, they will be looking at the information available about this industry issue and assisting in any resolution to whatever extent is appropriate.
As more details emerge, PCI-SIG may provide further updates. In the meantime, we recommend members work closely with their connector vendors and exercise due diligence in using high-power connections, particularly where safety concerns may exist.
Thank You,

Perhaps one shouldn't hold such confidence in the implementation and assembly of a adapter that clearly show's itself as inferior/defective when they are bent/curved.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I’m pretty sure that NVIDIA itself doesn’t know or didn’t know exactly what kind of contact party the supplier is having inside the molded connector. Otherwise, this part should not have been approved in this form. When you remove layer after layer, something gradually emerges that you would have been better off not seeing in the first place:

A total of four thick 14AWG wires are distributed over a total of six contacts, with the two outer leads soldered to one pin each and the two middle leads soldered to two pins each. The solder base is a mere 0.2 mm thin copper base with a width of 2 mm per incoming wire, which then results in 4 mm per pair for the middle connections. Soldering one or even two 14AWG wires to it is very sporty. Confucius says succinctly, “What is cast in cannot be seen, and what cannot be seen cannot be broken.”

But just carefully lifting off the enveloping layer causes the thin plate to tear immediately. With which we also see that bending the cables at the connector in the housing can cause such damage. Wobbly contacts or unsafe bridges, as well as increased resistances as a result of such actions are highly dangerous at these current strengths and very quickly lead to exactly the errors that we have already seen above. And you can now also see why especially the two outer contacts of the connector are affected. The scorched socket on the card is then only the consequential damage.

However, you can cut the plug open even further and see what exactly is inside. Because this detail is also highly interesting for the cause research. We see that the contacts in the connector are once again interconnected. If, in the worst case, the outer two wires break off, the entire current in the middle flows through the remaining two wires and is only then distributed in the plug again. But even this “foil” is thin and does not replace a real 14AWG. The fact that this then becomes really hot does not have to be explained separately….

From Igors Lab.
The gist of this is very simple and some, if not most already knew it. The adapter is defective. Soldering 14awg wire onto a 0.2mm tab (anything) is why the issue occurs. And it's completely and utterly absurd to actually see that this is how they where manufactured. Knowing the amount of power this small connector has to use. As you can see from above the tab breaks off with the huge ball of solder still holding the exposed wire in tacked. As it will simply break off with the slightly bit of pressure.

The horror has a face - NVIDIA’s hot 12VHPWR adapter for the GeForce RTX 4090 with a built-in breaking point | igor´sLAB

Those who are now beating up on the new 12VHPWR (although I don’t really like the part either) may generate nice traffic with it, but they simply haven’t recognized the actual problem with the…

www.igorslab.de

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I do wonder if those faulty adapters contribute to the coil whine people are having.
Another thing, Jay was able to get better OC using the cable mod vs the adapter. Interesting...

 

[EastCoastHandle]

These marks are riddled on the wire jackets and remind me of solder iron burns. When the point of the solder iron slips off the wire into the jacket creating melted spots and holes.
Who did they hire to do this? LOL

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I'm surprised AMD hasn't posted a meme or joke about it on Twitter yet, they're normally very fast to make fun of Nvidia for stuff like this

Oh they are out there.




There are other forums, reddit posts making the rounds. I am not going to post the others do to "taste". Not sure where they are coming from but they are out there.
There is a lot of parody going on about this.

And, I've noticed quite a few posting they've cancelled/returned their 4090's. This is a serious issue and no amount of "performance" seems to offset a safe environment.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

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Yet other adapters have bit the dust. Very interesting how they are locking threads using the standard boiler plate response instead of using alternate methods of messaging that they should post in the mega thread. This is optically a pure cluster failure on communication and reassurance to their customers. If it was their attempt to keep the discussion in a single thread they've failed massively by making it look like they are trying to silence people who report problems.

And all they had to do is change the phrase

This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/nvidia
New comments cannot be posted

to

All new post regarding adapter failure should be reported *here* where Nv will investigate each on a case by case.
New comments cannot be posted.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Jarred is more annoyed about bringing up Adapter Gate that AMD would advertise "AMD the safer choice" then the actual problem itself.

I just took off my connector to take a look and I noticed a crack near one of the connectors which I am sure wasn't there before. I am putting my 3080 Ti back until I get the Cablemod cable next week.

Spoiler: Pic of broken plastic pin

Sorry to see that mate. I am glad you took the time to do random inspections to catch it early though.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

This should prompt recall of the cables. The recall isn't to send them back but throw them in the bin.
At this point its no myth that "it's only a matter of time" if you are using those 4090 adapters. But I do wonder who still thinks these adapters are "fine".

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Another one

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Seems now people are becoming aware and checking their connectors they are popping up more each day... Recall incoming ...

It's really a shame that some won't believe until they see it for themselves. It's like they truly believe they are immune to the faulty adapters. But at least they are checking to actually see something is up before it gets any worst.

The actual correct response to all this is just remove the adapter regardless if you see any issues or not.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I just found out that NV will void warranties if they use a "3rd party" solution. Wut???

How does this help the situation? What are people suppose to do if they notice that they cannot use the included adapter? What in the world is going on here?

So, I am to assume that if someone is using a Cablemod cable right now they are out of warranty if they need assistance?

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Technically wouldn't one of these connectors from a pcie3 spec psu also be considered third party? Just standard bs if anything.

Correct, current PCIe to 12VHPWR connector are "adapters". The only way the cable is not an adapter is if you are using a ATX 3.0 PSU offering Gen5 ports allowing you to connect a 12VHPWR cable to a 12VHPWR connector on the GPU.

Check Your 4090's 12vhpwr Connectors To Make Sure They are in Pristine Condition

Free voucher from Nvidia for 4090 owners [URL ]https://tinyurl.com/Nvidia-4090-owners-voucher[/URL]

forums.overclockers.co.uk

look at the bottom of that post.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Who gives a crap, Intel and AMD voids your cpu warranty if you overclock or don't use jedec ram and Nvidia voids your warranty if you use aftermarket cables. Neither can be proven, it's legal crap that means nothing

Basically nothing in my pc has any warranty anymore, has that ever stopped me from getting stuff replaced? Never

Not the same thing in this context. AMD/Intel didn't provide an essential accessory to make their CPUs work correctly.

Nv mandated that you use "their" adapter which has turned out to be faulty. And threaten to deny any warranty claims if they find out that you used any 3rd party solution. I could care less of what you think the warranty means. This makes the whole situation a lot worst optically. Which is why they need to address it. Sooner rather then later. For starters, they should pivot on their website the wording of the warranty to include some sort of alternate solution since it's been proven that "their" adapter was not designed correctly.

I think this qualifies as a poo show now for Nvidia right?

Exactly.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

This is how the 12VHPWR connection is done correctly: Crimping instead of stupid soldering and how to supply the GeForce RTX 4090 with power properly. And we learn, what wrong bending can cause

https://twitter.com/IgorWallossek/status/1586196490422296577?cxt=HHwWgoC9ubrTpoMsAAAA

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Already disproven by Steve at Gamers Nexus

Just another case of Igor being wrong just like he was when 2080ti's were dying and 3090's in new world.

On all 5 of Steve's adaptors no amount of bending was able to break the soldering or even weaken the connection

Wrong, Steve states that he believe what Ignor found is part of the problem but doesn't believe it's "the problem". Therefore nothing is disproven only unconfirmed.
1st off you don't use solder to create a connector like that.
2nd you don't use solder like that when you are using 600watts. Igor is correct.
3rd Steve hasn't provide any proof as to why the issue is happening.
4th Steve tested in an open bench. Not inside of case. I've read no reports of people having this issue on an open bench. At least the majority of issues are in a closed PC Case. Where temps can be pretty toasty. BTW, the inside of my case is no were near that hot.
5th No mention of power cycling the GPU. Because using a atx 2.0 psu cannot properly communicate to the 12vhpwer adapter to even the power draw loads on the 4 pig tails. Therefore, if the gpu is turned on and wants full power when it shouldn't and you do this a few times... What we should be asking is if doing this 30-60 times create melting of the connectors? I've not seen any results of this yet.

You should go back and watch his video again because you are getting a very inaccurate view point on the situation. In particular:
11:57 - We Could Use Your Help!
24:11 - But There is Obviously a Problem
25:07 - Some Native Cables Might Also Fail
Because it's clear he didn't find nor implied that he found the problem nor solution.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I know it's the design. What i don't get is if there's any reason to do it that way, i mean it seems like there's two redundant pins as like I've been saying i can't see why two of the wires have dedicated pins while another two get split across two pins.

I'm not an electric or electronics engineer so maybe there's a reason for doing that that i just don't understand.

They did it this way because it's cheaper to produce verses the correct way.
Now we have a scandal of people's connectors melting. A 1st in the last few gens on mass like this.

The root cause, IMO, is that Nv made a GPU in which you need a true atx 3.0 psu with gen 5 connectors. Because people don't have such a psu and the fact that most won't upgrade to one just to buy a $1600+ gpu we have these "adapters" included in the box. Problem is these adapters haven't been tested, to my knowledge, of how power consumption is handled when starting the PC several times. In such cases power consumption can sky rocket when using atx 2.0 PSU. As there is no "checks" in place to regulate power balancing. Which is why you don't see all the sense pins in use. Which is the point of 12vhpwr to begin with but I digress.

But here we are waiting to see how many people actually report the issue on "reddit" vs anywhere else just to get a glimpse of how bad the issue really is.