China and war

alchal said:
Yes the Chinese will be more willing to lose civilians and as a party they can do as they wish, something that the west can't do.

However in military terms only ,there is not a chance in hell for the Chinese military to win.

By saying 'how many years 19?' you are claiming that it was the military alone that couldn't win and ignoring the social/political fallout.
Again, read some literature on the subject.
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My point is exactly that you don’t enter a war to lose. If you enter a war and your problems cause you to not win then you have lost. This could be due to lack of military power, lack of stamina, political support, financial or whatever.
What we do know is that they went to defeat communism and they didn’t succeed in doing so and that to me constitutes a loss even though they were obviously superior militarily.
 
Rroff said:
Thing is though you don't always plan to be in a war. Common fallacy around aggression. Sometimes war comes to you - unless you just roll over from the start (and even that doesn't guarantee you won't be victims).
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Mrwong said:
British we’re fighting against France Spain and the Dutch in the Americas.
plus poor leadership lost them the USA. But it allowed the British to focus on the empire.
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So...excuses, excuses....
 
Definitely doesn't seem to get it...

We are not talking about 'wining' a war we are talking about one on one the US machine will crush the commies,it's hypothetical ,as we can't put whatever politics etc into the equation we look at the power etc of the military...from that we can see the US military (minus the political crap) did,has and would have won the conflicts if not for problems back home...

Understand?
 
thenewoc said:
I was thinking more of a gorilla army
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Seen that Movie.

lxYI9Ur.jpg


:p
 
alchal said:
Definitely doesn't seem to get it...

We are not talking about 'wining' a war we are talking about one on one the US machine will crush the commies,it's hypothetical ,as we can't put whatever politics etc into the equation we look at the power etc of the military...from that we can see the US military (minus the political crap) did,has and would have won the conflicts if not for problems back home...

Understand?
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The political 'crap' can't just be ignored, otherwise there's nothing to defend. There has to be some sort of moral conviction and credibility to the conflict or the whole endeavour falls apart and you can't just ignore a loss in public support as an inconvenient burden, as that is more important than any victory in a democracy. Once you lose it, it's over.

I doubt anyone is really suggesting that the US wouldn't have won in Vietnam, however it's impossible to remove the public from the equation, even dictatorships can't survive without the consent of their's.
 
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StriderX said:
The political 'crap' can't just be ignored, otherwise there's nothing to defend. There has to be some sort of moral conviction and credibility to the conflict or the whole endeavour falls apart and you can't just ignore a loss in public support as an inconvenient burden, as that is more important than any victory in a democracy. Once you lose it, it's over.

I doubt anyone is really suggesting that the US wouldn't have won in Vietnam, however it's impossible to remove the public from the equation, even dictatorships can't survive without the consent of their's.
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I agree that the public etc has to be taken into account on past conflicts but some are saying the military itself has and would struggle to win a conflict.
They defeated Saddam's army.
They almost won Vietnam if not for public support.
The Chinese would have been pushed back if not for ww2 fatigue back home.

So military wise they would win, hypothetically and without putting politics into it .
With politics ...I think it would be difficult,the Chinacom gov will happily lose millions, American support would go after a few large losses in my opinion and want to recall.
 
alchal said:
I agree that the public etc has to be taken into account on past conflicts but some are saying the military itself has and would struggle to win a conflict.
They defeated Saddam's army.
They almost won Vietnam if not for public support.
The Chinese would have been pushed back if not for ww2 fatigue back home.

So military wise they would win, hypothetically and without putting politics into it .
With politics ...I think it would be difficult,the Chinacom gov will happily lose millions, American support would go after a few large losses in my opinion and want to recall.
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American support would be dependent if it was a threat to the US or another country.
If there was a direct threat to the US then the other country would have serious problem. I personally think the US would play by a different rules but only if there was a direct threat.
 
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China and India war before October 2020. I am 95% confidant this will happen with the additional pressure of Pakistan.

When this happens you'll see the US back India when war kicks off.
 
Mrwong said:
China and India war before October 2020. I am 95% confidant this will happen with the additional pressure of Pakistan.

When this happens you'll see the US back India when war kicks off.
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If it doesn't happen you get a free name change to "Mr Wrong" :p
 
Mrwong said:
China and India war before October 2020. I am 95% confidant this will happen with the additional pressure of Pakistan.

When this happens you'll see the US back India when war kicks off.
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Dunno - India's government are a bit like the UK one - a lot of PR and popularity contest like politics, etc. and will likely run away from a fight - more like China will do a bit of like happened in Ukraine. There is a lot of potential for miscalculation however. I think in the longer run that region is going to edge closer and closer to a war no side can back away from and the backers of the different sides might be a bit surprising.
 
Rroff said:
Dunno - India's government are a bit like the UK one - a lot of PR and popularity contest like politics, etc. and will likely run away from a fight - more like China will do a bit of like happened in Ukraine. There is a lot of potential for miscalculation however. I think in the longer run that region is going to edge closer and closer to a war no side can back away from and the backers of the different sides might be a bit surprising.
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Russia will be stuck in the middle with those two. China's land grabbing and actions will land it in a war
 
Rroff said:
Dunno - India's government are a bit like the UK one - a lot of PR and popularity contest like politics, etc. and will likely run away from a fight - more like China will do a bit of like happened in Ukraine. There is a lot of potential for miscalculation however. I think in the longer run that region is going to edge closer and closer to a war no side can back away from and the backers of the different sides might be a bit surprising.
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If there's one thing the UK doesn't do, it's run from a fight. Every Democracy has to fight a constant popularity contest, that's not unique to India or the UK. Neither India or China want a war, so there will not be a war.
 
Roar87 said:
If there's one thing the UK doesn't do, it's run from a fight. Every Democracy has to fight a constant popularity contest, that's not unique to India or the UK. Neither India or China want a war, so there will not be a war.
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I think China wants a war to prove they are also a military global power.
 
Roar87 said:
If there's one thing the UK doesn't do, it's run from a fight. Every Democracy has to fight a constant popularity contest, that's not unique to India or the UK. Neither India or China want a war, so there will not be a war.
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The UK maybe but this government isn't one that likes difficult action... when things get tough they tend to dissappear.

Sure democracies are somewhat a popularity contest but in some cases it has been taken to an extreme.

I'm not really sure as to China's position on war but sometimes due to miscalculation or a situation becoming impossible to reconcile things come to war even when no party desires it.
 
Mrwong said:
I think China wants a war to prove they are also a military global power.
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Maybe, but it wouldn't be with a nuclear armed, US backed India.

Rroff said:
The UK maybe but this government isn't one that likes difficult action... when things get tough they tend to dissappear.

Sure democracies are somewhat a popularity contest but in some cases it has been taken to an extreme.

I'm not really sure as to China's position on war but sometimes due to miscalculation or a situation becoming impossible to reconcile things come to war even when no party desires it.
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I assume you're talking about Boris going missing during Covid, I feel like there were extraneous circumstances involved there in that he was recovering from a very serious illness as well as coping with the birth of a child. Unless you've got any more examples? They actually went through with Brexit which is a step up from the previous administration.
 
Only thing China wants is Taiwan,hence the build up of its navy and especially it's amphibious capability.
Of it builds up enough of a force multiplier then it could take it before the US can respond to help.

The party can never sleep when there is a small piece of China that it doesn't control.
 
Only thing China wants is Taiwan,hence the build up of its navy and especially it's amphibious capability.

The party can never sleep when there is a small piece of China that it doesn't control.
 
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