China and war

Soldato
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China and Iran draw up military and trade partnership in defiance of Trump administration
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-partnership-trump-us-sanctions-a9615581.html

There is a rich guy I know and he flies to countries all over the world. He says that everywhere the US as been in a war or previously invested in and pulled out, China is moving in and investing in those countries.

The reason there hasnt been a war between the US and China is because both of them rely on each other. From China's point of view the US is its biggest importer so if it went to war with the US then China's economy would take a hit too. So China is going around the world trying to fill in the potential US loss by getting more trade agreements with other countries. This particularly happened in Africa and now looks like the Middle East too.

On the flip side for some reason the US is becoming more insular and isolated by pulling out investments in other countries, pulling out of organisations and even trying to shame allies about NATO.

I know for some people when the heat comes on they leave the scene. But this is a bad move as its speeds up the transformation and increases the inevitability of the very result people didnt want to happen.

I think we see how much influence China as over the Middle East when many countries in that region signed a letter praising China on its human rights as over a million Muslims are in indoctrination camps.

In the UK I don't think we can do anything else but ban Huawei in light of the way China just stamped all over the Hong Kong agreement. I had been ok with Hauwei until that point with counter checks on the technology. But we won't be bullied around by anyone.

Let us not forget we're only in this situation because amoral capitalists wanted to make huge profits by moving our industries to China and other places putting British workers out of work. The same in the US.
 
Soldato
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Finally looks like Huawei has had the plug pulled on its spy ring ambitions over here.

I find it baffling that we even entertained the idea.
 
Caporegime
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Finally looks like Huawei has had the plug pulled on its spy ring ambitions over here.

I find it baffling that we even entertained the idea.
I must admit my personal opinion of China - nay, it's government - is of a hostile, manipulative, untrustworthy, authoritarian, dangerous regime.

It's sad but today I don't think we can either trust them or partner with them.

I think we absolutely should reduce our reliance on them, esp for manufacturing. We need to stop expecting things to be so cheap at the cost of creating/empowering this monster (CCP).

They seem to have unlimited ambition, but the problem is they have unlimited ruthlessness to match their ambition. (Perhaps not dissimilar to the early British Empire? Maybe we taught them how to be so ruthless :p)

And our own high standards would inevitably falter as a powerful China puts pressure on us to do things their way or face the consequences.

Thus we need to reduce as quickly as possible our dependence on them.

I still don't think they would want to start a war, but they absolutely would bend us to their will, eventually, if we didn't check their power.
 
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Not sure why people are bothered about being spied on, every country spies on the other and have done for a long time the U.S is by far the worse with all their alphabet agencies.

I remember when people were saying the government is spying on you 20 or more years ago, they were told they were crazy conspiracy theorists... Yet the Government was spying on you.

Just face it the west is being out wested by the east.
 
Caporegime
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Not sure why people are bothered about being spied on, every country spies on the other and have done for a long time the U.S is by far the worse with all their alphabet agencies.

I remember when people were saying the government is spying on you 20 or more years ago, they were told they were crazy conspiracy theorists... Yet the Government was spying on you.

Just face it the west is being out wested by the east.
Won't disagree with some of that, but would you rather live under CCP/PRC rule or live in the UK/US/Europe?

Allowing China to become the world's leading superpower would mean other governments buckling under pressure from China. It's already happening.
 
Soldato
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The problem is now it's just too little too late, no?

If we stifled China's ambitions 30 years ago then they'd be a North Korea, problem is we wanted their cheap labour and they were clever enough to keep their markets shut down while they forced Western companies to setup in China as joint ventures so they could get their hands on all that lovely intellectual property.

The West would have to work really hard now to put the dragon back in the box!
 
Soldato
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I dont want China spying on me knowing my business, knowing what iam doing where iam going. Just a moment need to post on face book, instagram, ticktock, twitter, snapchat to tell people what iam doing and where iam going. :rolleyes:
 
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So what, we’ve bullied and bombed the poor nations of the world to gain and maintain our “dominance. Now someone else is potentially doing similar and we feel threatened.

Some may call that karma others may say that is the nature of geo political interactions.

We are and have never been perfect what we have sowed we may now have to reap. Or maybe it’s just all nonsense and no better way of keeping people in check than using fear to achieve that.
 
Soldato
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How many of the component chips used in every electrical device, router, phones, 4G/5G etc. etc. are made in China, unless we stop buying all these components from China our security is still at risk.

I read on The Register that integrated circuits are designed by software only the principles are done by humans. Apparently all the main software companies that can design integrated circuits layouts for the highest density circuits are American so Chinese fab labs can't add anything to US designed chips as they lack the capability. Obviously different for historic Huawei designed kit. But a problem for Huawei for future designs because US companies are prohibited form creating new chip layouts.
 
Caporegime
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So what, we’ve bullied and bombed the poor nations of the world to gain and maintain our “dominance. Now someone else is potentially doing similar and we feel threatened.

Some may call that karma others may say that is the nature of geo political interactions.

We are and have never been perfect what we have sowed we may now have to reap. Or maybe it’s just all nonsense and no better way of keeping people in check than using fear to achieve that.
In fairness, that was a long time ago. We've moved on for the most part. We've given all/most our empire back and we abolished slavery, etc.

It's like the people who says, "Well what about the Crusades?" when some unsavoury religious practice is brought up. Yeah, the Crusades were a long time ago as well. Modern-day western religions aren't perfect either, but they also don't encourage you to beat your wife (etc).

19th century practices really should stay in the 19th century :p
 
Soldato
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Don't think you grasp it.

China is hell bent on total control of every aspect of its citizens life's, western ideology goes against their party beliefs etc.
The more info they can get on us the more they can spread lies to fuel unrest.
We can't as they have a closed shop much like Russia is now doing.

They are winning the tinternet .
 
Caporegime
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I read on The Register that integrated circuits are designed by software only the principles are done by humans. Apparently all the main software companies that can design integrated circuits layouts for the highest density circuits are American so Chinese fab labs can't add anything to US designed chips as they lack the capability. Obviously different for historic Huawei designed kit. But a problem for Huawei for future designs because US companies are prohibited form creating new chip layouts.

China is a proto-innovation economy at this point, they don't really need other countries designs anymore. Obviously it helps them if they can keep ahead in this manner, but I imagine it's better long term for Beijing if they can get a fully domestic R&D sector running without IP theft getting in the way. Not sure how long it will take for them to catch up.
 
Soldato
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You misunderstand they design their own chips but physical layouts of chips is highly specialized and carried out by software. The article I read said that China does not have the proprietary software to design it's own layouts. It will sub contract the services of US companies for the layout design of the highest density integrated circuits. At least according to The Register.

edit: I'm struggling to find the article, I'll post a link if I can find it.
 
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In fairness, that was a long time ago. We've moved on for the most part. We've given all/most our empire back and we abolished slavery, etc.

It's like the people who says, "Well what about the Crusades?" when some unsavoury religious practice is brought up. Yeah, the Crusades were a long time ago as well. Modern-day western religions aren't perfect either, but they also don't encourage you to beat your wife (etc).

19th century practices really should stay in the 19th century :p
No fella our involvement in the Middle East is much more recent than WW2 for example.

Even if so, China is just on the same path we were/are. What’s right for us can’t be wrong for others. In fact the countries we have the biggest issues with just happen to be those that are not afraid of us. China, Russia and Iran are the only countries left that will not just roll over and give us what we want.

To think China need 5g to gain information about us is laughable. Like a Chinese hacker couldn’t hack Intels renowned security measures. Stop being silly your information is not that hard to access if it was that important to them or anyone else.
 
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