'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane
- Thread starter Domo
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/
This is a pretty in-depth article which was published the other week. TLDR... it suggests the most likely outcome by far is that it was suicide, also suggests Malaysian authorities know more than they are saying.
This is a pretty in-depth article which was published the other week. TLDR... it suggests the most likely outcome by far is that it was suicide, also suggests Malaysian authorities know more than they are saying.
You're assuming there that the aircraft had satellite communications for the passengers (otherwise out of range for mobiles), and that the pilot didn't pull the breaker that from my understanding, would probably have been in the cockpit with him for the passenger comms.
Over the ocean everything in terms of communications to and from the aircraft is at the control of the flight crew, because the pilots need to be able to isolate and disable any system that could go wrong, and that includes things like the power to the in flight entertainment systems, the communications etc,
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What could actually be done even if authorities knew what was happening? I doubt they could unlock the cabin door from the ground. Or could they?
I don't usually go for conspiracy theories but I think this time I'm going to make an exception.
I think something very strange happened onboard that aircraft - I will admit however I have no idea what.
I read the above linked article and it was very reasonable. And working on the basis that if you discount all other possiblities then the remaining one however improbable must be the truth.
But something about this whole thing doesnt sit right with me. Whenever there is a large aircraft crash there is an enormous amount of pressure to quicky seek answers. As the above article alluded, in this case there was national prestige and loss of face, corruption and incompetence, political machination and pressure from the families. Add very expensive lawyers from the aircraft manufactorer and external accident investigation agencies to the mix. Etc etc.
The pilot did it, cased closed is just too simple - it's the easy answer and the guy involved can never defend himself. And there have been a number of contentious findings in past accident investigations, where despite finding the flight crew at fault there has been a strong belief that this was unjust. And that the finding was as a result of political pressure from various organisations involved. (One example of this would be the Mull of Kintyre crash of an RAF Chinook - which is still considered to be contentious. There are others.)
That being said, it is possible that the Captain did infact, commit suicide. But being a bit sad seems somewhat tenuous, I'm not sure what to make of the flight simulator findings. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can find very detailed technical discussions of the incident and I would'nt want to replicate that here, however I'd like to make a few points.
The fact stated in the article that there is no technical failure or cascade of technical failures which could explain this incident is a widely held view and seems entirely reasonable. At least, nobody has ever come up one.
Also, nobody seriously believes that the aircraft was remotely hijacked via some nefarious means and flown to its demise.
A point about the depressurisation. In the event of the oxygen masks dropping in the cabin, the cabin crew members would have been trained to get to the flight deck if a rapid descent was not initiated very quicky, in case the pilots had not been able to get their O2 masks on in time. There are a number of portable oxygen bottles in the cabin of all passenger aircraft for this purpose. (A B737 has 3 or 4, the much larger B777 will have significantly more). I can't remember how long they will provide oxygen but I'm pretty sure its an hour or more. The point being that simply depressurising the cabin will not pacify it completely.
Also, if the younger crew members of my airline are anything to go by, they are never ever more that 2 seconds away from their phones. And as stated in the article, the first officers phone did connect to a cell tower. The fact of the matter is, that its not uncommon to be able to send or receive text messages at 35000 feet. I have forgotten to switch off my phone and have occasionally received text messages welcoming me to the country I'm currently flying over. But nobody on the plane got a message out, despite knowing something was wrong.
None of which proves that the Captain did'nt do it.
However, the wreckage. This is odd. As far as I'm aware - none of the usual debris when an aircraft crashes and breaks up in the ocean has been found. By this I mean, life jackets, seat cushions, catering supplies, personnel items from the passengers etc etc, only easily identifiable aircraft parts (too easily identifable?). In the case of AF447 which crashed into the Atlantic, it took them 2 years to find the aircraft but within days they had found a trail of the previously mentioned items miles long.
My final point is this. A year previously the exact same aircraft type, from the exact same airline was downed by a Russian surface to air missile. I just can't get my head round this. The chances of the two events being just a coincidence must be astonishly small - it almost seems unbelievable that the two events are not somehow linked. But if you accept the possibility that they are linked - I have no idea where that leads......
I think something very strange happened onboard that aircraft - I will admit however I have no idea what.
I read the above linked article and it was very reasonable. And working on the basis that if you discount all other possiblities then the remaining one however improbable must be the truth.
But something about this whole thing doesnt sit right with me. Whenever there is a large aircraft crash there is an enormous amount of pressure to quicky seek answers. As the above article alluded, in this case there was national prestige and loss of face, corruption and incompetence, political machination and pressure from the families. Add very expensive lawyers from the aircraft manufactorer and external accident investigation agencies to the mix. Etc etc.
The pilot did it, cased closed is just too simple - it's the easy answer and the guy involved can never defend himself. And there have been a number of contentious findings in past accident investigations, where despite finding the flight crew at fault there has been a strong belief that this was unjust. And that the finding was as a result of political pressure from various organisations involved. (One example of this would be the Mull of Kintyre crash of an RAF Chinook - which is still considered to be contentious. There are others.)
That being said, it is possible that the Captain did infact, commit suicide. But being a bit sad seems somewhat tenuous, I'm not sure what to make of the flight simulator findings. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can find very detailed technical discussions of the incident and I would'nt want to replicate that here, however I'd like to make a few points.
The fact stated in the article that there is no technical failure or cascade of technical failures which could explain this incident is a widely held view and seems entirely reasonable. At least, nobody has ever come up one.
Also, nobody seriously believes that the aircraft was remotely hijacked via some nefarious means and flown to its demise.
A point about the depressurisation. In the event of the oxygen masks dropping in the cabin, the cabin crew members would have been trained to get to the flight deck if a rapid descent was not initiated very quicky, in case the pilots had not been able to get their O2 masks on in time. There are a number of portable oxygen bottles in the cabin of all passenger aircraft for this purpose. (A B737 has 3 or 4, the much larger B777 will have significantly more). I can't remember how long they will provide oxygen but I'm pretty sure its an hour or more. The point being that simply depressurising the cabin will not pacify it completely.
Also, if the younger crew members of my airline are anything to go by, they are never ever more that 2 seconds away from their phones. And as stated in the article, the first officers phone did connect to a cell tower. The fact of the matter is, that its not uncommon to be able to send or receive text messages at 35000 feet. I have forgotten to switch off my phone and have occasionally received text messages welcoming me to the country I'm currently flying over. But nobody on the plane got a message out, despite knowing something was wrong.
None of which proves that the Captain did'nt do it.
However, the wreckage. This is odd. As far as I'm aware - none of the usual debris when an aircraft crashes and breaks up in the ocean has been found. By this I mean, life jackets, seat cushions, catering supplies, personnel items from the passengers etc etc, only easily identifiable aircraft parts (too easily identifable?). In the case of AF447 which crashed into the Atlantic, it took them 2 years to find the aircraft but within days they had found a trail of the previously mentioned items miles long.
My final point is this. A year previously the exact same aircraft type, from the exact same airline was downed by a Russian surface to air missile. I just can't get my head round this. The chances of the two events being just a coincidence must be astonishly small - it almost seems unbelievable that the two events are not somehow linked. But if you accept the possibility that they are linked - I have no idea where that leads......
And yet there are multiple instances where it's pretty damn clear the pilot did do it. Several listed in the article.
What use would trying to get to the cabin be when the pilot has locked the door? It cannot be accessed ergo nothing they could do.
Over the middle of the ocean where this flight path has been shown to have progressed?
People were searching for the plane 1000s of miles from where it likely went down. Unlike the air france flight where they were looking in the correct place. After relatively short periods of times buoyant items lose their buoyancy. Its also worth noting though that personal items such as purses were found.
An unfortunate coincidence. Since the shoot-down of the flight over Ukraine is fully understood what could be the link between the two? You're postulating with no evidence and indeed no logical reasoning at all.
I'm not assuming that anyone had satellite comms. The co-pilot's mobile is reported to have made contact / hand shaken just prior to the planes disappearance which is reported to be half way across the South China Sea heading towards Vietnam at the time. According to the following link mobile comms are unlikely above 10'000 feet so if no one noticed the plane was not at the right altitude that far in to the flight then something probably happened to eliminate oxygen prior to that location and then the plane descended. At which point if the pilot's motive was suicide he could have just crashed into the South China Sea.
https://webcache.googleusercontent....rk-on-an-airplane/+&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Presumably the plane either climbed to correct altitude as it turned back to fly over George Town and/or most onboard were dead by that stage. The flight is reported to have last been seen by Malaysian military radar 370 km (200 nmi; 230 mi) northwest of the island of Penang (Andaman Sea and Bay of Bengal area). A lot of extra effort to go to if your objective was to commit suicide.
So? The fact other pilots have committed suicide does not prove this one did. It proves nothing either way. It all other cases of pilot suicide in this manner there has been pretty damning evidence found in the pilots personal or financial life after the fact, from which it can be inferred that they saw no other way out. No such evidence has been found in this case. There are other differences as well, not least being the time scale over which the suicide took place.
Finally, if you wish to put this down to suicide then you have to be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, as with all the other cases - the facts here are a very long way from that.
I can assure you, that with sufficient time and motivation, it is entirely possible to break down an armoured cockpit door using items readily available in the cabin. Time being the operative word here. The purpose of the armoured cockpit is to allow the pilots time to get the aircraft on the ground when somebody is trying to break in. It will not prevent entry indefinately. Both time and motivation existed in this case.
Initally the flight path was over land as evidenced by the first officers phone making contact with with a cell tower. Having spent many years flying passengers around I very much doubt if more than half the cabin listen to the anouncement telling them to switch their phones to flight mode. In the depressurisation/suicide scenario it would have been very obvious very quickly then something was wrong.
No debris field has ever been found - this is extraordinary for an aircraft that supposely broke up upon impact with the ocean. And debris from an aircraft crash can stay afloat for years. The oceans are chock full of floating debris.
I'm sorry but what?! Fully understood? So the Russians have published a full, frank and honest account of what happened? Because until they do the claim that the event is fully understood is utterly bizarre. What we have is a reasonable explaination of what happened, in an environment where the perpetrators disseminated, lied outright and blocked at every turn the investigation, which took place in a foreign and hostile environment. The fact of the matter is that there could be other explanations.
It well may be a coincidence - if it is, its the worlds most bizarre and unlikely coincidence. Aircraft accidents are incredibly rare - to have two, both of which are strange, happening to the same aircraft of the same company in a relatively short space of time. You seem to think it's illogical to question a link, quite frankly its illogical not to.
You seem to think this is an open and shut case, I think thats a bit naive. We a long way from knowing what happened to that aircraft and given the lack of information and inconsistancies in what we do know, I would keep open the possibility that something far more sinister occurred.
I'm not the only one to think this - Tim Clarke, CEO of Emirates, the largest B777 operator in the world also thinks the whole thing stinks.
Soldato
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Is there a short version that doesn’t involve me watching an hour?
Soldato
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Just watch the first 5 minutes
Hmm, that’s actually quite interesting and I’d like to know more. I have experienced being able to track aircraft locations by analysing aircraft scatter on a constant signal. For example, have a look at this.
The primary signal is the horizontal morse code, the lines that slope across it are aircraft scatter and if you have a couple of traces like this from receivers at known locations and the aircraft speed and altitude, it's possible to calculate roughly where the aircraft is.
However, the effect is only noticeable on relatively close receivers and you need multiple receivers. Considering this went down over the ocean with no receivers nearby, without knowing any more details, I'm a bit sceptical.
Not so much if you want to go down as a mystery though.
You've got to remember in the suicide there is potential for deliberate actions to make it harder to find for the sake of it, or possibly to make sue it couldn't be confirmed suicide
Soldato
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I seem to remember background signal scatter was a purported development for tracking or at least detecting stealth planes. I bet some great research has been done on the quiet.
Flight MH370 landing gear suggests ‘criminal intent’ by crash pilot
A pilot on the lost flight MH370 appears to have lowered the doomed Boeing 777’s landing gear in the last seconds of flight, suggesting a possible criminal inte
www.thetimes.co.uk
An interesting development though not surprising at all. Reddit worked this one out years ago...
TLDR; to the massive Reddit thread I posted a while back - pilot, who's very ****ed off with Malaysian government and depressed, downs the jet on purpose having researched the deepest part of the ocean in which to do it.
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