Technology is moving forward, time is moving forward. It's not the same msrp as msrp for Ryzen is $300 not $500 (which was long time ago when technology was on a different level). You can say £600 is at a discount because long time ago intel was selling 8core for 1k and now it is selling it way better and cheaper.
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Core 9000 series
- Thread starter orbitalwalsh
- Start date
Wasn't really talking about the 9 series but current 8700k/8600k prices etc.
I don't see angst, I just see it pointing out the obvious... that it's terrible value, which it is. The fact there are other options which offer circa 10% less performance yet for half the price speaks volumes in that respect. No it's not the end of the world, but no one is saying it is, nor is any sane person exclaiming PC gaming is going to die as a result. What is happening however is a lot of heads being buried in the sand and ignoring of that value proposition, choosing only to see the performance metric in isolation (and often not considering how that diminishes as you increase resolution). If you don't understand what's wrong with that then I cannot help you. Price is intrinsic to actual discussion about the CPU, it's performance doesn't exist in a vacuum unless you're being given a CPU for free. Again, if you can't see this, I don't know what to say.
This has come up before and essentially its how you define discussion. Discussing the price is one thing, but like the Nvidia threads, repeating the same statements ad nauseam, which you will see people do in this and other threads, is not discussion. It's just letting off steam because you are salty or you want to keep banging home your opinion so people listen. So no, a lot of what I read here about the price is not discussion.
I find it laughable also that you think a lot of heads are buried in the sand with regards to value proposition. This forum at the moment is very AMD dominated in it's postings, which is fine, but all we hear about is the value proposition like a hammer over the head. What you don't understand is the people considering this CPU generally don't care about the value proposition even though you keep going on about it like a pneumatic drill around the face.
Soldato
The thing is we've been getting more incremental upgrades each time rather than leaps, except for core counts. This will hopefully change next year since Intel probably won't be stuck on 14nm anymore and AMD moving to 7nm. Then people will be wondering whether to upgrade or not because DDR5 will be just around the corner probably 6-12 months after the new chips come out. I can't see DDR5 doing much at first though, could be wrong, i thought i read an article stating it was more about getting higher capacities onto each stick rather than extra speed.
Why do you think people don't consider value? Most people actually do. It's quite clear however that those buying the 9900K don't. Or they've simply convinced themselves it's worth it based on performance stats, but are choosing to ignore the actual facts pertaining to cost/performance. This could be for any number of reasons, most likely because they just want the fastest CPU available and damn the cost. There is certainly NO justification for the pricing however, and dismissing value is utterly self defeatist and only hurts you and the rest of us as consumers. Most of those buying the 9900K need do nothing more than hold their hands up and say "I don't care, I want it." And that's fine, they are free to do so of course, but it really is that simple.
I don't see that much salty-ness... again I see a lot of obvious facts being pointed out regards value. I think those who've bought these CPUs probably FEEL as though they're being attacked for some reason, but like I say, they just need to own that "I don't care, I want it" position, because that's all it amounts to.
![[Death]](/styles/overclockers/avatars/4.png){kind=avatar}
Associate
Yup I don’t care I wanted it and that’s it 
Yup I don’t care I wanted it and that’s it
And genuinely, there is nothing wrong with that. Outside of perhaps giving the likes of Intel etc. permission to keep charging such insane prices, but there will always be people willing to pay so that's never going to change.
I'm not sure why you say they are choosing to ignore the facts when maybe they just don't care, which I think is OK. I'm not sure people should even have to consider value if they can afford it. Maybe I buy differently but generally I will spend all of the budget that I have available. Ironically the 9900k would save me money in this case as I'm also considering a 2950x as my use case is evolving.
I feel that there are people out there that have bought a 9900k or are going to get one who avoid posting because they see how aggressive some people can be about other's buying habits and pricing etc and that's a shame as these are the people we want to hear from, not the same old rubbish over and over. We can agree this thread needs more users getting involved I hope.
Caporegime
I remember similar complaints being made about the Intel sponsored PT benchmarks. i got the impression then that some people would rather others didn't make any noise about the claims of 50% better performance over Intel's competitor being utterly fake.
The internet has had 5 years at least of people continuously telling us there is no situation where an AMD CPU is worth buying, now its Intel who need to justify their products and for a lot of us at the prices they want they can't, get used to it.
Caporegime
I get the impression Intel are looking at what nVidia did to AMD.
Make sure you have the fastest product and with that claim to be the Apple of your market sector and over charge massively because you are the premium brand.
That worked for nVidia but its becoming clear that will not work for Intel, i don't know why but i'm glad of that.
Make sure you have the fastest product and with that claim to be the Apple of your market sector and over charge massively because you are the premium brand.
That worked for nVidia but its becoming clear that will not work for Intel, i don't know why but i'm glad of that.
Associate
Or it's just that £100/200 quid isn't that much money? I'm annoyed at being on the receiving end of shortages and the price acceleration that lies with that. But in the end like all purchasing exercises involve price growth through the sales process - from holidays to cars.
Watching this thread seeing a bunch of men in their 30s argue over what is in reality very small sums of money had me scratching my head but then I think I have worked it out.
When most of us started in this hobby in the late 90s onwards we were kids or students where 50£ here or there is a great deal of money.
Now our purchasing window has grown to the top end of the market but everyone is still acting like a student who won't be able to afford their pot noodles for a week fighting over p4 vs athalon at the bottom end.
the entire value chain below the top end is still available and well within all our budgets, some of us in 20 odd years in the hobby or for work or whatever reason are in a position to not die over a 100£ price increase.
Watching this thread seeing a bunch of men in their 30s argue over what is in reality very small sums of money had me scratching my head but then I think I have worked it out.
When most of us started in this hobby in the late 90s onwards we were kids or students where 50£ here or there is a great deal of money.
Now our purchasing window has grown to the top end of the market but everyone is still acting like a student who won't be able to afford their pot noodles for a week fighting over p4 vs athalon at the bottom end.
the entire value chain below the top end is still available and well within all our budgets, some of us in 20 odd years in the hobby or for work or whatever reason are in a position to not die over a 100£ price increase.
If they can afford it, sure... but in my experience people who can comfortably afford things only have money because they have TREMENDOUS respect for it and its value. They don't throw it around without a care in the world, and those that do don't remain in a position to do so very long.
I would also postulate that there are a lot of people buying these CPUs under the mistaken belief that there is more value than there actually is... due to marketing, not reading reviews and the assumption that Intel are simply the best. That last belief alone is a powerful one, and the same mentality which leads people to only drive BMW, Audi, Range Rover etc. because they perceive them to be the best. There's also an element of elitist snobbery involved there, like it or not. I've known people who refuse to buy Ford, Vauxhall etc. for this reason, just as I've come across those who think AMD is for poor people. It's ridiculous. All points to reasons that go beyond any logical reasoning anyway, of which there are few in respect to a 9900K purchase if one actually does factor in that value component to any serious degree... and it's really not incorrect to say that the vast majority of PC users do actually consider that when making a purchase as significant as a CPU.
I'm not saying it's not OK to buy an expensive CPU, I'm merely pointing out the obvious.
Caporegime
Its a £300 difference and yes if you're getting a RTX 2080TI you're getting a 9900K anyway, anything less than that and you're not going to see much of a difference, if any, between the 2700X and the 9900K so why spend the £300 more to gain nothing?
You can get a nice case and a fat NVMe drive for £300.
Associate
I spent £250 on dinner last night, it was nothing to write home about but a cool setting, bit of a punt on a recommendation from a member of my staff. I'm not going to **** the bed about it.
This is in the region of personal indulgence money for many people. Middle class Women statistically spend far more than this on low utility items monthly as an average, this isn't anything out of the norm with wider society. we're basically having a group autistic meltdown over people treating themselves to the best thing around.
I'm spending £600 as part of 1200£ upgrade (after parts failure) for something to make my computer go vrrrrm hopefully it's quite good, if not meh the hardware is tax deductible as cap x anyway and the price acceleration in the sales process comes to about £300 over the amd equiv hardware. I've been more screwed paying for far less fun things (car repairs etc.).
This is in the region of personal indulgence money for many people. Middle class Women statistically spend far more than this on low utility items monthly as an average, this isn't anything out of the norm with wider society. we're basically having a group autistic meltdown over people treating themselves to the best thing around.
I'm spending £600 as part of 1200£ upgrade (after parts failure) for something to make my computer go vrrrrm hopefully it's quite good, if not meh the hardware is tax deductible as cap x anyway and the price acceleration in the sales process comes to about £300 over the amd equiv hardware. I've been more screwed paying for far less fun things (car repairs etc.).
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Caporegime
If you're spending £250 on dinner you don't care that one CPU costs £300 more than another for +15%, most of us cannot afford to spend £250 on dinner. I can't.
Caporegime
The excuse making is hilarious. The prices are way above RRP,and some here are concerned about making themselves poorer and enriching companies who in the end. Yet if the government were to increase taxes to reduce our massive defecit, the same lot will start moaning how the government is stealing their monies.
Edit!!
So all the people "begging" for prices to be higher should have zero problem if taxes go up more.
Edit!!
So all the people "begging" for prices to be higher should have zero problem if taxes go up more.
Soldato
I'm glad £100 - £300 is a "small sum of money" to you, and that £250 for "dinner" is "nothing", but it isn't for the vast majority. YOU are the minority, £250 is more than some spend in a month on food!
I take it you don't see the news about food banks being oversubscribed, more and more entering poverty etc, the rise of the discount supermarkets due to people having to cut back on expenses in every way possible, that's the real world for the majority.
What I find annoying more than "high prices" is the product tiers - increasingly you have top product @ top price, mid range product @ top tier pricing which is like half the top end product spec wise and then a mix of close together low end products masquerading as low to mid-range. I miss the days when you'd have the "ultra" product at the top at "ultra" prices and then a product behind that was a good percentage of the top product specs but at a price where you could look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, then an actual mid-range product at a mid-range price and then an actual selection of lower end parts.
EDIT: Though to be fair on the AMD side there is still some semblance of that - but Intel, nVidia and many other companies in the tech world seem to be moving further and further from the old model and AMD isn't far behind.
Associate
Rroff that's actually a good point and this is a cross sectoral issue, to put my professional hat on for a second it's broadly down to very high money supply globally and huge asset accumulation trends from Dollar rich developing economies. This has led to the hollowing out of the mid market as top tier asset prices are accelerated by excess global demand and bottom end prices tumble lower due to rapid efficiency gains in manufacturing and service deployment.
This has manifested in the current Intel yields issues vs. ever increasing global demand. On the flip side cheap chips be they amd or Intel are pretty amazing compared to what the bottom end of the market was 20 years ago.
This has manifested in the current Intel yields issues vs. ever increasing global demand. On the flip side cheap chips be they amd or Intel are pretty amazing compared to what the bottom end of the market was 20 years ago.