COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[V F]

It makes me laugh that people are giving Dan a hard time, the messaging when the vaccine first came about was largely based on the whole "get the vaccine go back to living a normal life like going on holiday" from what I can remember. I'm obviously paraphrasing slightly but it was certainly geared towards the getting back to "normal" life.
It's probably the only reason many took it.

When you see all the mess at airports and such, while it's not really coming from Covid, how's the normal life treating them with all the mess that has been taking place? "Get the vaccine go back to normal life like going on holiday"

 

[mk1_salami]

You just said where are all the people. There is real data showing all the people.

Now whether or not the number is inflated because of the number of shots administered is one thing (and a valid point). But claiming they don’t exist is quite another.

For someone who supposedly works in a similar field, I’m not impressed by your analysis of the situation.

 

[GarethSouthpete]

It must be the 5G in the injections that causes it. I hear that bleach is a better option.

 

[dowie]

This is quite interesting re: the lab leak hypothesis and some of the vested interests that seem to be obstructing investigation into that:

Why the Chair of the Lancet’s COVID-19 Commission Thinks The US Government Is Preventing a Real Investigation Into the Pandemic

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs says he is “pretty convinced [COVID-19] came out of US lab biotechnology” and warns that there is dangerous virus research taking place without public oversight.

www.currentaffairs.org

A snippet from the article:

ROBINSON:​

A shocking thing to me was that the head of the EcoHealth Alliance was on the World Health Organization team that actually investigated the origins of COVID and concluded that it wasn’t the lab.

SACHS:​

Well, more than that: I appointed him—this was Peter Daszak—I appointed him to chair the task force of the pandemic commission that I was running for the Lancet. And he headed a task force on the origins. I thought, naively at the beginning, “Well, here’s a guy who is so connected, he would know.” And then I realized he was not telling me the truth. And it took me some months, but the more I saw it, the more I resented it.

And so I told him, “Look, you have to leave.” And then the other scientists in that task force attacked me for being anti-scientific. And I asked them: “What are your connections with all of this?” They didn’t tell me. Then when the Freedom of Information Act released some of these documents that NIH had been hiding from the public, I saw that people that were attacking me were also part of this thing. So I disbanded that whole task force. So my own experience was to witness close up how they’re not talking. And they’re trying to keep our eyes on something else. And away from even asking the questions that we’re talking about. We don’t have the answers. But we have good reasons to ask. And we have good reasons to know that NIH is not doing its job properly right now.

ROBINSON:​

So you’re saying that Daszak and others did not disclose to you pretty serious conflicts of interest? Since, on the hypothesis that it had something to do with this kind of research, that would have implicated Daszak himself in the origins of the crisis?

SACHS:​

Well, he could have explained to me right from the beginning that there was a big research program and that they were manipulating the viruses, and here’s how. He could have given me the research proposals. And when I asked him for one of the research proposals, he said, “No, my lawyer says I can’t give it to you.” I said, “What? You’re heading a commission. We’re a transparent commission. You’re telling me your lawyer says you can’t give me your project proposal.” I said, “Well, then you can’t be on this commission. This is not even a close call.”

But there were so many other things. He was just filled with misdirection. I don’t know whether he understands or not, maybe he doesn’t understand. But the things he said just were absolutely not right.

ROBINSON:​

When people hear you say, “They’re sweeping it under the rug, they don’t want to look,” one question that may come to their minds is “Well, why? Why would people not be interested in getting to the truth?” But the alternate hypothesis from the natural spillover that you’re talking about could have serious repercussions. It would implicate a lot of people in potentially millions of deaths. So there’s a lot at stake here for the scientific community. Which explains why there would be an interest in directing people away from this possibility.

SACHS: ​

There are at least two reasons why they might be doing what they’re doing. One is, as you say, the implications are huge. Imagine if this came out of a lab. And we have, by some estimates, about 18 million dead worldwide from this. That’s not the official count. But that’s the estimated excess mortality from COVID. Well, the implications of that—the ethical, the moral, the geopolitical—everything is enormous.

But there’s a second matter that is really important, too. One thing that is rather clear to me is that there is so much dangerous research underway right now under the umbrella of biodefense or other things that we don’t know about, that is not being properly controlled. This is for sure. And that’s happening around the world. And governments say “don’t poke your nose into that.” That’s our business, not your business. But it’s actually our business. It’s our business to understand what is going on with this. This is not to be kept secret. We don’t trust you.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Many mocked this much earlier Daily Mail article citing Daszak as having inside knowledge of what was occurring, but it seems pretty accurate now, to me.

US and China 'were planning to create a brand new coronavirus'

Last month, a grant application revealed that an international team of scientists from the US, China and Singapore planned to mix genetic data of similar strains to create a new coronavirus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CapitalOne]

You just said where are all the people. There is real data showing all the people.

Now whether or not the number is inflated because of the number of shots administered is one thing (and a valid point). But claiming they don’t exist is quite another.

For someone who supposedly works in a similar field, I’m not impressed by your analysis of the situation.

I’m not impressed by your lack of answers to valid questions about the data you posted. I think the phrase is “put up or shut up”.

As someone else pointed out, stop playing the healthy sceptic, conscientious scientist, public defender and just put your conclusion in simple terms. Why are you so reluctant to do this?

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

I work in Clinical Negligence and I haven't had one claim that the 'vaccine made me Ill', not one. Where are they all?



80% of our patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.
Luckily they aren't dying now because they're just getting bad Omicron.

Covid-19: UK makes first payments to compensate injury or death from vaccines

The first compensation payments in the UK have been made to families who have been bereaved, or to people who have been injured, as a result of a covid-19 vaccine. Vikki Spit from Cumbria is believed to be the first person to receive compensation, after her 48 year old partner, Zion, became ill...

www.bmj.com

First claims seem to be being processed now, maybe they bypassed your desk?

 

[V F]

I work in Clinical Negligence and I haven't had one claim that the 'vaccine made me Ill', not one. Where are they all?



80% of our patients in the hospital are unvaccinated.
Luckily they aren't dying now because they're just getting bad Omicron.

Out of curiosity, what was your take on Doctor Steve James who challenged Sajid Javid start of the year?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Out of curiosity, what was your take on Doctor Steve James who challenged Sajid Javid start of the year?

A complete and utter ****, I had 2x Clinicians in our department going mad about what he said.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Covid-19: UK makes first payments to compensate injury or death from vaccines

The first compensation payments in the UK have been made to families who have been bereaved, or to people who have been injured, as a result of a covid-19 vaccine. Vikki Spit from Cumbria is believed to be the first person to receive compensation, after her 48 year old partner, Zion, became ill...

www.bmj.com

First claims seem to be being processed now, maybe they bypassed your desk?

These will come nowhere near an NHS Clinical Negligence desk, if you read they are people who have to prove they are 60% disabled from ANY vaccine and it goes through a Government body.
One of the Guillan Barre Syndrome patients I mentioned above was awarded money from this same Government department.

 

[mk1_salami]

I’m not impressed by your lack of answers to valid questions about the data you posted. I think the phrase is “put up or shut up”.

As someone else pointed out, stop playing the healthy sceptic, conscientious scientist, public defender and just put your conclusion in simple terms. Why are you so reluctant to do this?

I don’t have a conclusion. I have my own opinion on things which really have nothing to do with the cold data I provided.

You said the people don’t exist because you haven’t personally dealt with them. I provided links and screenshots to real people with issues.

Do you still deny they exist? Head in the sand.

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Now, knowing those facts, you can interpret them however you please. That's none of my business. But facts they are, and are indisputable.

 

[ltron]

Had a coffee out with a friend. The couple behind me kept their masks on until they took a sip of their drink then brought mask back up. It was irritating my friend who only stopped wearing masks in shops in mid June when we had the hot spell

If people are still that paranoid, why do they have a coffee etc outside home?

Does the friend not realise COVID is still rife and maybe the couple are vulnerable? Just because the friend blindly follows a government desperate to pretend it's all over when it's not it doesn't mean we all have to.

 

[ltron]

Surely constant touching mask isn't good?

If you have hand sanitizer or pull it down by the straps then it's fine. It's been found that COVID spreads a lot less by touch than was originally thought, breathing it in seems to be the primary route of infection which is why a good quality mask can help.

 

[dowie]

Surely constant touching mask isn't good?

Are they licking their fingers afterwards? This is the sort of nonsense we had from people before masks were advised back when we had ritual hand washing as the laughable recommended way to avoid infection.

You're overwhelmingly more likely to get covid from breathing in air in an indoor space where someone else in infected.

 

[dowie]

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Now, knowing those facts, you can interpret them however you please. That's none of my business. But facts they are, and are indisputable.

Those are quite easily disputable, vaccines can, in fact, stop transmission and can indeed stop you from getting ill... that's been proven in testing, if they didn't work they wouldn't have been approved in the first place.

You might get infected despite being vaccinated but you've got a better chance of not being ill given everything else being the same and not having a vaccine, if you're not infected you can't transmit it. You might get ill if infected, you're way way more likely to not be seriously ill if you've had the vaccine vs if you haven't and if you're ill/infectious for a shorter period of time then you've got less chance of transmitting it too.

 

[Freefaller]

Are they licking their fingers afterwards? This is the sort of nonsense we had from people before masks were advised back when we had ritual hand washing as the laughable recommended way to avoid infection.

You're overwhelmingly more likely to get covid from breathing in air in an indoor space where someone else in infected.

Indeed. I've gone back to licking the hand holds on the tube. I missed it.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Indisputable FACTS

. When you have the likes of Alex Jones being followed by millions are you surprised?
. Yes, we knew that, my flu vaccine doesn't stop me from getting the flu
. The vaccine stops you from getting seriously ill/dead which is now what we're seeing in hospital wards. We have no patients in our ICU because the vaccine is doing it's job.

 

[Freefaller]

I don’t have a conclusion. I have my own opinion on things which really have nothing to do with the cold data I provided.

You said the people don’t exist because you haven’t personally dealt with them. I provided links and screenshots to real people with issues.

Do you still deny they exist? Head in the sand.

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Now, knowing those facts, you can interpret them however you please. That's none of my business. But facts they are, and are indisputable.

Everyone has the right to be a skeptical, and interpret information the way you want.

Personally I'm quite blasé about this, but I also respect that there's data out there that shows that perhaps I should be more careful, that said everyone had their own risk profile and behaviours.

It sounds to me that you're on the skeptical side of the fence, which is fine and I support your right to be 100%.

However, stating so called facts and so on doesn't negate other data and facts and other people's experiences.

I made the mistake of coming into this thread during COVID peak behaving similarly, thinking it was a big fuss about nothing, but clearly it is something, and whilst not a huge number of people died directly because of COVID.... millions (let that number sink in...) probably had the end of their life either accelerated by, or their vulnerabilities enhanced by COVID causing them to get very ill and unfortunately die albeit of other conditions but COVID directly contributed as a catalyst. So for all intents and purposes millions of people have died or died sooner because of COVID. COVID is not irrelevant.

Now personally and in my social circles COVID barely even comes up any more, but I respect people's attitudes and worries about it and don't try and convince them to be blasé about it. If people don't want to hug, or shake my hand or want to wear a mask or sanitise every 3s I respect it. I don't even roll my eyes. I just accept we are all different, and everyone has the right to be more/less worried about it whether you think it's right or not.

What I'm suggesting is that you've made your case, let people think about it, either disagree or agree but repeating the same info constantly doesn't enhance your case.

Perhaps I've interpreted your intentions wrong, despite being more on "your" side of the fence I don't think you can be so absolute in your points.

 

[Tephnos]

I don’t have a conclusion. I have my own opinion on things which really have nothing to do with the cold data I provided.

You said the people don’t exist because you haven’t personally dealt with them. I provided links and screenshots to real people with issues.

Do you still deny they exist? Head in the sand.

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Now, knowing those facts, you can interpret them however you please. That's none of my business. But facts they are, and are indisputable.

Your 'FACTS' are not as clever as you like to think they are.

1. No ****, we've not had a mass immunisation programme that targeted the entire population in a very long time, and adults typically have more adverse reactions to shots (such as fevers) compared to children. It's not the problem you pretend it is. Those self reported databases you keep linking to encourage you to submit any and ALL reactions to vaccines, which is obviously going to include very minor things such as temporary fevers. Big whoop.
2. Irrelevant blanket statement. They reduce the chance of transmission by a) both preventing infection entirely in some (obviously less relevant with Omicron now) and b) shortening the amount of time you are ill/infectious for. They still help.
3. They don't, but we know for a fact that they put a severe dent on how serious that illness becomes. To dispute otherwise makes you a fool.

Move on already. Your tripe is tiresome.

 

[CapitalOne]

I don’t have a conclusion. I have my own opinion on things which really have nothing to do with the cold data I provided.

You said the people don’t exist because you haven’t personally dealt with them. I provided links and screenshots to real people with issues.

Do you still deny they exist? Head in the sand.

Here are some indisputable FACTS

• In the USA there have been more adverse reactions to Covid shots than every other shot administered in the previous 18 years.
• The vaccines don't stop transmission
• The vaccines don't prevent you from getting ill

Now, knowing those facts, you can interpret them however you please. That's none of my business. But facts they are, and are indisputable.

I don't think I ever said people don't exist - I think you've confused me with someone else.

What I did say was your data was a dogs dinner.

I'm not going to try and convince you - it is entirely up to you how to come to your own conclusions and I support that. Just don't think you've found a compelling case when there are big gaps in the analysis. Just to reiterate I stated:

1) they are total incidents and not proportional to the number of vaccines given
2) they don't break down by severity
3) they are self reported I think rather than medically verified (open to correction here)