COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Tephnos said:
Your 'FACTS' are not as clever as you like to think they are.

  1. No ****, we've not had a mass immunisation programme that targeted the entire population in a very long time, and adults typically have more adverse reactions to shots (such as fevers) compared to children. It's not the problem you pretend it is. Those self reported databases you keep linking to encourage you to submit any and ALL reactions to vaccines, which is obviously going to include very minor things such as temporary fevers. Big whoop.
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Alright Tephnos ... Show me, as a percentage, the likelihood of developing a vaccine side effect from a covid shot, versus another shot, for example the seasonal flu vaccine. The number of shots administered is irrelevant to the side effect % ratio, you'd agree?

2020-21 season. Flu shots administered in USA: 193 Million (source). VAERS reports in the same period for flu shots: 21,185 (source). Percentage of VAERS reports to flu shots administered = 0.01%

2020-2022 Covid Shots administered in USA: 604 Million (source). VAERS reports in the same period: 883,759 (source). Percentage of VAERS reports to covid shots administered = 0.15%

You're statistically 15 times more likely to have an adverse reason to a covid shot than a flu shot (in the USA).
What part of that is wrong, or has anything to do with the number of shots administered? The numbers are correct (run them yourself).

As I said before, they do not stop the spread of covid. They do not stop people from getting ill. Am I stupid? I'm a uni graduate, run a successful company, have a 99th percentile IQ - I'm not sure you're right on that.

To call me deluded - based on what? I'm citing real data anyone can look at. What you said does nothing to counter the raw data, and the fact that - according to the data presented - these are much more dangerous than a typical vaccine.

/edited to add sources.
 
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mk1_salami said:
As I said before, they do not stop the spread of covid. They do not stop people from getting ill.
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So you seem to keep conveniently forgetting that having the jab might mitigate against you becoming seriously ill or perhaps dying. Does this not matter in the great scheme of things?
 
picnic said:
the jab might mitigate against you becoming seriously ill
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I’d agree with you. As I'm sure you'd agree that the jab might make someone ill, or worse.

If you can accept one, but not the other, I'm not the deluded one.

By the way let me clear up my stance here. I accept that taking 1, 2, 3 or 16 covid shots, may offer some protection against becoming seriously ill with covid. But I also accept that taking 1, 2, 3 or 16 shots may make someone ill or kill them.

I look at my risk from covid, having already contracted it and recovered quickly. I'm a healthy 39-year-old. The vaccines show low efficacy and carry a comparatively high risk of problems. I decided not to take it.

The data should be presented in such a way people can make an informed decision. What shouldn't have happened:

- Critics canceled
- Any negative information hidden or downplayed
- People made out to be selfish for deciding what goes in their body

Remember the message "SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" rammed down our throats for years? To me, that statement is very problematic. It could be argued that a more accurate tagline should read "comparatively not very safe, and not very effective".

The problem is when one side is promoted (either side!) and the other is dismissed or hidden. These shots were sold as a silver bullet to exit from lockdown. People all over the world were told they wouldn't get ill if they took it. They were locked up when they didn't take it. They were sold a lemon, basically, and critics were made out to be modern-day lepers or heretics.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
I prefer sarcasm

coviddenier2.jpg
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Though funny - some of the foremost scientist and doctors and/or relevant bodies/companies haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over the pandemic and some seem to be operating to agendas neither in the public interest or scientific.

People posting stuff like Dowie did early on in the pandemic, often at odds with the statements from professional bodies, was often met with scepticism or derision while it turned out to be correct, or at least along the right lines, in the longer run. While on the other hand some professionals completely overcooked their models.

EDIT: Related to that though - I find it strange how much the actions of certain British and Italian doctors has slipped under the radar - there was a small group of them who took it on themselves to collaborate and responsible for significant leaps in our ability to tackle the pandemic and saved a lot of lives with advances in understanding of the disease progression.
 
Rroff said:
Though funny - some of the foremost scientist and doctors and/or relevant bodies/companies haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over the pandemic and some seem to be operating to agendas neither in the public interest or scientific.

People posting stuff like Dowie did early on in the pandemic, often at odds with the statements from professional bodies, was often met with scepticism or derision while it turned out to be correct, or at least along the right lines, in the longer run. While on the other hand some professionals completely overcooked their models.
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Yes but we know all that now. It is all about what we do know now rather than what we didnt know then. The problem is that is being used by the covid sceptics to play down the potential real risks of covid. People outside hospitals calling it a hoax. People claiming the vaccine kills you or even worse, implants a chip from Bill gate in you.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Yes but we know all that now. It is all about what we do know now rather than what we didnt know then. The problem is that is being used by the covid sceptics to play down the potential real risks of covid. People outside hospitals calling it a hoax. People claiming the vaccine kills you or even worse, implants a chip from Bill gate in you.
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My phone signal has been amazing since, so hoax or not, I'm happy with it, over 300mbps, and I glow in the dark. Life is sweet. Ok the scales, and tail are a bit of an inconvenience but at least I can post of the forum at high speed now. :D
 
mk1_salami said:
By the way let me clear up my stance here. I accept that taking 1, 2, 3 or 16 covid shots, may offer some protection against becoming seriously ill with covid. But I also accept that taking 1, 2, 3 or 16 shots may make someone ill or kill them.
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Well that's the whole crux. Being unvaccinated and getting COVID multiple times may end up making you very ill or, heaven forbid, result in death. Having a jab may also adversely affect you, I've never denied that. The odds of having a sore arm might be quite high ( 20% in my personal experience ) with the jab but I believe the risk of dying is significant higher if I was unjabbed and caught COVID. Your personal view seems, to me at any rate, that your much more likely to die or be seriously ill from having a jab than getting COVID multiple times. That's not the general consensus.

I suspect a healthy person will tolerate both the virus itself and the vaccine without serious outcome. The advantage then of having the vaccine is it helps reduce spread, load on the NHS and number of people dying.
 
picnic said:
Well that's the whole crux. Being unvaccinated and getting COVID multiple times may end up making you very ill or, heaven forbid, result in death. Having a jab may also adversely affect you, I've never denied that. The odds of having a sore arm might be quite high ( 20% in my personal experience ) with the jab but I believe the risk of dying is significant higher if I was unjabbed and caught COVID. Your personal view seems, to me at any rate, that your much more likely to die or be seriously ill from having a jab than getting COVID multiple times. That's not the general consensus.

I suspect a healthy person will tolerate both the virus itself and the vaccine without serious outcome. The advantage then of having the vaccine is it helps reduce spread, load on the NHS and number of people dying.
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He won't listen.
I'm looking at real data in the countries 3rd biggest Trust.
We have 137 Covid patients, none admitted because of adverse affects of the vaccine.
We have one very elderly Covid patient in ICU who is unvaccinated.
In fact I have never heard of anybody having an adverse vaccine reaction ending up on a ward, we've had them at A&E but then discharged.
 
Tony Edwards said:
People outside hospitals calling it a hoax. People claiming the vaccine kills you or even worse, implants a chip from Bill gate in you.
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People calling it a hoax are idiots.
Theres always the risk of vaccines killing people, but there tends to be something else behind that.
People who think Gates has anything to do with this are also idiots.
 
Trig said:
People who think Gates has anything to do with this are also idiots.
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The guy has virtually eradicated polio around the World but because some kids have had an adverse reaction he is Satan.
I've got one 'friend' who is so far down the hole he won't have anything to do with Microsoft and even Microsoft documents and will only accept PDFs even though it was Word converting them to PDF.
Also recently found out that he won't have anything to do with Google, he was my main helper on a large Facebook Group devoted to live bands/artists but since I put a Gig List of these artists on Google Docs he won't have anything to do with it :)
 
Uther said:
Let's see what the anti vaxxers do with this...
news.sky.com

All London children aged one to nine to be offered polio vaccine dose after more virus found in sewers

Vaccine-derived poliovirus has been detected in sewage in Barnet, Brent, Camden, Enfield, Hackney, Haringey, Islington, and Waltham Forest - as well as lower concentration doses further afield.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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I suppose there's little chance of the media putting their heads above the parapet and suggesting if there's a commonality of demographic involved in these resurgences of diseases once all but eradicated?
 
Chris Wilson said:
I suppose there's little chance of the media putting their heads above the parapet and suggesting if there's a commonality of demographic involved in these resurgences of diseases once all but eradicated?
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They've already stated it's due to people from countries using an oral version of the vaccine that contains live virus. So it's that demographic.
 
cheesefest said:
www.bbc.co.uk

'I've been let down - I shouldn't have stage-4 cancer'

Caroline Boulton says there have been delays at every stage of her treatment for breast cancer.
www.bbc.co.uk

I am thinking more people like this will die of cancer due to reduction of scans, postponement of surgery etc in the next three years than covid itself, which has hit 200k deaths.
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It will be hard to tell - I remember reading an estimate that only a fraction of people who will die due to COVID have actually died yet, more deaths to come over the next decade or two due to health complications resulting from a COVID infection due to the damage it can cause due to the cardiovascular system, etc.

Bad times all around.
 
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