COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

If i was a tin foil hatter, i'd say staff had been told to put COVID down as the cause for ICU patients in 2020 to raise the fear figures up. Hmmm pause for thought :confused:

So when we had 56 ICU beds and a further 30 beds for ICU 'Covid' patients (total 86) what were they actually in for?
A common cold :)
 
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Once called a conspiracy theory, the HIV similarities in (long) covid continue to be recognised.

It is a theory gathering pace when tracing the biomarkers and creating eventual treatments.

 
I got ill on Tuesday. Started with a sore throat, and general feeling of fatigue. It sorted itself out came Wednesday, but by Thursday it was a lot worse.

I’ve had sore throat, fatigue, aches and pains and nausea. Now a persistent cough etc.

Just sleep and usual over the counter medication to combat. But it’s awful.
 
Do explain why the flu vaccine was always called a vaccine, despite never being anywhere close to 100% effective?

I cannot explain it and it doesn't make any sense. I am of an age where the words "vaccine" and "vaccinated" actually meant what they said.

During the covid pandemic the definition of vaccinated changed where, before, it meant if you had a vaccine against a named disease, you were immune from said disease. This changed to "you might not get as poorly as others".

Now call me a tin foil hatter but this change to the definition came at the same time as people who had taken the C19 vaccines were being reinfected time and again. So if the C19 vaccine wasn't making people immune from the disease, just change the definition of the word vaccine and waffle on about variants.

We were promised the C19 vaccine would stop us getting covid and ensure that we wouldn't infect anyone else but that turned out to be wrong. It didn't stop infection or transmission. I really believe we have been lied to about much.
 
During the covid pandemic the definition of vaccinated changed where, before, it meant if you had a vaccine against a named disease, you were immune from said disease.

Umm, nope? Your confusion is arising due to your obvious misunderstanding of the matter, a common source for CT's.

Many vaccines don't provide 100% immunity, that's why we even talk about the efficacy. For example, smallpox vaccine is ~95% effective, MMR ~95% and Whooping Cough ~85%.

They've still always been called vaccines.

Now call me a tin foil hatter

You're a tin foil hatter

but this change to the definition

Because there was no change in definition.
 
Umm, nope? Your confusion is arising due to your obvious misunderstanding of the matter, a common source for CT's.

Many vaccines don't provide 100% immunity, that's why we even talk about the efficacy. For example, smallpox vaccine is ~95% effective, MMR ~95% and Whooping Cough ~85%.

They've still always been called vaccines.



You're a tin foil hatter



Because there was no change in definition.

This,

I have been vaccinated against polio, yellow fever, smallpox, typhoid, measles mumps, chickenpox and rubella in my life. I have also contracted measles, mumps and chickenpox when young and fairly mildly in that I am still here.

I had yellow fever, typhoid and smallpox vaccines as a young baby in 1953 before going to Africa.

Nothing is ever 100%.

Edit: and covid of course.
 
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Yep. Vaccines always have had and always will have different levels of effectiveness.

I’m in bed with Covid right now and I’m glad i”ve been vaccinated. It would likely be much worse if I hadn’t.

i either caught it on a bus, 2, 0.5 hour rides into town and back. In a cafe Nero. Where I didnt have a drink but sat in it for half an hour talking two people who say they’ve not had it/got it. Or in M&S buying a pack of socks.
 
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I cannot explain it and it doesn't make any sense. I am of an age where the words "vaccine" and "vaccinated" actually meant what they said.

During the covid pandemic the definition of vaccinated changed where, before, it meant if you had a vaccine against a named disease, you were immune from said disease. This changed to "you might not get as poorly as others".

Now call me a tin foil hatter but this change to the definition came at the same time as people who had taken the C19 vaccines were being reinfected time and again. So if the C19 vaccine wasn't making people immune from the disease, just change the definition of the word vaccine and waffle on about variants.

We were promised the C19 vaccine would stop us getting covid and ensure that we wouldn't infect anyone else but that turned out to be wrong. It didn't stop infection or transmission. I really believe we have been lied to about much.
No vaccine gives perfect immunity, and by the very nature of the immune system you do get "infected" by the disease a vaccine protects against, as the vaccines work by preparing the body to respond to it and react faster and with more force when it is detected. Basically you start to get infected but the body is ready and starts fighting it off, hopefully before you show symptoms and become highly infectious* (you might feel a bit run down but never know why), as the infection doesn't get the foothold it needs to spread but for something in the respiratory track even "mild" means you're likely shedding the live virus.

Unfortunately Covid changes fast enough (rather like the flu which requires a yearly shot against usually 3-4 new strains) which makes the jabs job harder as the immune system takes a little longer to respond than if it was a perfect match, but it still reacts and does so in a manner that means what would likely have been a nasty infection is now "mild" and short or not noticable. It's not a perfect vaccine, but it's pretty much on a par with most others in how it's working.

I think something covid has shown is that a lot of people don't understand that diseases mutate and that for a vaccine to work best you really need to be vaccinated against specific variants, unfortunately that message is a little harder than "vaccinate to get protected" or a pithy 3 word slogan.
I've certainly seen a lot of people who've never paid attention to childhood jabs as they don't realise that a course of 2 or more jabs is the norm for "stable" diseases we protect against, and for ones that mutate a lot at minimum a yearly updated jab is needed. As i've said before, even for extremely stable diseases if you're expected to get exposed a lot or suspected to have been exposed you'll either get a routine booster jab, or get one if you see a doctor after the likely exposure (tetanus for example IIRC hasn't changed in centuries, but you'll still get a booster if you have a nasty cut and they don't know if you've had one in the last few years),
Nor do a lot of people seem to have paid attention to the history of vaccines to understand that the covid jab for a "first" vaccine for a completely new disease was both developed fast, and has worked excellently, iirc from the first covid jab we were seeing success rates in terms of protection that were rarely if ever seen in previous "early" vaccines and on a par with some of the very well established ones.

I honestly think covid is probably the first time a lot of people have had to have a vaccine, or thought about it at all since the MMR nonsense, and unfortunate a lot of the MMR grifters latched onto it for the same reason (they can sell "wellness" products and things like crystals to protect against the signals).


*One of the key reasons "herd immunity" relies on a very high percentage of the population having been vaccinated is that for some illnesses some people just never get fully protected from the vaccine and others can't take it, whilst even those that are protected can still carry it to some degree.
 
*One of the key reasons "herd immunity" relies on a very high percentage of the population having been vaccinated is that for some illnesses some people just never get fully protected from the vaccine and others can't take it, whilst even those that are protected can still carry it ...

Some places in the UK are now approaching critical immunity levels for measles and even smallpox a disease we felt we had eradicated, from people arriving from parts if the world where vaccination is less universal and by a reluctance to vaccinate by ignorant parents and guardians dependant on the Internet for information .

Tuberculosis is also on the return, a disease I remember from mining villages in the North.
 
Some places in the UK are now approaching critical immunity levels for measles and even smallpox a disease we felt we had eradicated, from people arriving from parts if the world where vaccination is less universal and by a reluctance to vaccinate by ignorant parents and guardians dependant on the Internet for information .

Tuberculosis is also on the return, a disease I remember from mining villages in the North.
IIRC the US has had a couple of measles outbreaks in recent years, the largest was tracked down to an infected idiot going to Disney in Florida IIRC where there were a lot of other idiots who had never vaccinated their kids and because of how infectious it is just walking past unvaccinated people in relatively close proximity was enough to spread it.

I think the CDC tracked it down within a few days of getting reports from doctors dealing with the other other visitors who'd gotten infected there as from memory he also infected several people on an aircraft.
They did an incident report that basically explained the outbreak and how they became aware of, and dealt with it in relatively simple terms.
 
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We were promised the C19 vaccine would stop us getting covid and ensure that we wouldn't infect anyone else but that turned out to be wrong. It didn't stop infection or transmission. I really believe we have been lied to about much.

No we weren't promised, it was always a protection and still is.
The people who worked on it would never promise anything and I was made well aware from day one a vaccination would hopefully protect against it being bad.

You must have had your source from a conspiracy site because we knew immediately when it was released it wouldn't stop us getting it or transmitting it -


This is from December 2020 when the first jabs were given out -
 
No we weren't promised, it was always a protection and still is.
The people who worked on it would never promise anything and I was made well aware from day one a vaccination would hopefully protect against it being bad.

You must have had your source from a conspiracy site because we knew immediately when it was released it wouldn't stop us getting it or transmitting it -


This is from December 2020 when the first jabs were given out -
It's messaging like this
Pfizer didn't do any tests but you can be fairly sure they will prevent asymptomatic cases and transmission
From here https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...teer-to-help-your-questions-answered-12183087

That mislead/confused/whatever people and when it's coming from the major news sources why wouldn't people believe it.
 
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It's messaging like this

From here https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...teer-to-help-your-questions-answered-12183087

That mislead/confused/whatever people and when it's coming from the major news sources why wouldn't people believe it.

From the exact same page, how can anybody with more than one brain cell be confused?

1. Does the vaccine stop transmission?

Prof Evans, a clinical trials and drug and vaccine safety expert, said: "We aren't absolutely sure of that and we will need to follow up the use of the vaccines in practice to be more sure.
So not sure

"The Oxford vaccine took samples from people so they've been able to look at asymptomatic cases, so we are fairly confident that they will at least reduce transmission once they are effective.
True

"They will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the first jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your second jab.
True

"Pfizer didn't do any tests but you can be fairly sure they will prevent asymptomatic cases and transmission."
Prevent not stop
 
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From the exact same page, how can anybody with more than one brain cell be confused?

1. Does the vaccine stop transmission?

Prof Evans, a clinical trials and drug and vaccine safety expert, said: "We aren't absolutely sure of that and we will need to follow up the use of the vaccines in practice to be more sure.
So not sure

"The Oxford vaccine took samples from people so they've been able to look at asymptomatic cases, so we are fairly confident that they will at least reduce transmission once they are effective.
True

"They will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the first jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your second jab.
True

"Pfizer didn't do any tests but you can be fairly sure they will prevent asymptomatic cases and transmission."
Prevent not stop
You've met the general public right? Especially at a time like that mixed messaging was always going to lead to confusion or people holding on to the bit they wanted to be correct.

The article also is mainly focused on the astra zenica vaccine, the only mention of the Pfizer one is that bit I've quoted where "prevent" would be read as "stop" by most people without the benefit of hindsight.
 
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Where does it say that?
It implies the same thing before your third how I'm reading it.
It literally states that it doesn't totally prevent transmission... until you've had your 2nd jab. That implies, after the 2nd jab it does prevent transmission. That was always the assumption that nobody challenged, even though Pfizer stated this was never verfied.
 
It literally states that it doesn't totally prevent transmission... until you've had your 2nd jab. That implies, after the 2nd jab it does prevent transmission. That was always the assumption that nobody challenged, even though Pfizer stated this was never verfied.

It does not say that.

It says:
"They will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the first jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your second jab".

That implies after your second it will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the second jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your third jab

and so on.
 
It does not say that.

It says:
"They will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the first jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your second jab".

That implies after your second it will start to have some efficacy 14 days after the second jab so will probably reduce transmission, but not totally prevent it before you have your third jab

and so on.
It literally states "some effcacy after the 1st jab" - the totally prevent it is with the 2nd jab. Is this some sort of re-write history or an attempt at gaslighting people that they weren't being routinely told that this was the case?
 
It literally states "some effcacy after the 1st jab" - the totally prevent it is with the 2nd jab. Is this some sort of re-write history or an attempt at gaslighting people that they weren't being routinely told that this was the case?

It's you re-writing it and making a big deal of the sentence, I read it a completely different way.
"but not totally prevent it before you have your second jab" means when you have your second it won't totally prevent until you have your third and so on.
Before the first jab we were told there would be seconds and thirds and so on, if they were stating total prevention after the second we wouldn't need them but we were told it would be ongoing like the flu jab.
 
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