Man of Honour
we'll have to agree to disagree about that. I think it's a stretch calling it one of the most tested, it's certainly one of the most scrutinised.
COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion
- Thread starter ThundyCat
- Start date
we'll have to agree to disagree about that. I think it's a stretch calling it one of the most tested, it's certainly one of the most scrutinised.
There are pre-existing vaccines using those techniques and/or closely related as per AZ though.
I agree with your stance. None of the Covid vaccines had anywhere near the usual level of testing. This isn't even debatable. And with the AZ vaccine, major issues were found early on but this information was suppressed by various governments, CDC etc. I was aware of this via my academic/research links.
Soldato
Yet it still saved many many lives.
Man of Honour
Yes it's fair to assume that. I mean it might not be perfect (it seems it isn't but then what medicine is?) But it probably helped more than it didn't. That Said it is also true to say that a few corners were cut, again not in a "we must make a profit" way, but in a if it's 80% ok it'll have to do way.
A bit like the royal engineers in a war zone, they'll build a bridge which is probably just about ok for the tanks to cross over but it won't be that stable or survive long term because of the speed of deployment. Nonetheless they're experts, under pressure with lives at stake. They accept the risk for the "it'll do".
That's what I feel about the vaccines having read multiple different pro and con articles and reviews and papers.
Whilst we can't play with people's lives I wonder if everyone had been given a placebo (maybe other than the heavily immunocompromised people) I reckon the death count wouldn't be much higher than it was. Again this is very callous and I don't mean it, you can't just dismiss people's lives if there's a chance at saving it even with something uncertain. It's just a hypothetical idea that I have seen proposed.
I wouldn't have wanted to make that call however. Looking back I think I'd have liked to abstain from taking it but travel and seeing my family was worth the risk of taking it.
And has killed millions ...
Soldato
Not….sure…..if…..serious……
Man of Honour
Again it's not easy to prove - if you give millions of people something, you are bound to get negatives... Although I'm skeptical on its roll out, I still believe it has helped more people than not.
That said, being open to the fact that it's not perfect and rushed and has some serious adverse impacts on people is not conspiracy theorist stuff either.
I think by virtue of the fact that people are just not interested in boosters anymore (other than those that may need it like those with conditions) people are voting with their feet. Wise? Who knows, there's been so much sensationalism both ways on this topic, that ultimately you need to make your decision, and not judge others for theirs.
If people are germaphobes (and I don't mean that in a condescending or nasty way) or paranoid about getting ill or just generally cautious - then if taking vaccines, flu jabs and so on makes them feel they can continue to interact in normal human society then that's more important to me than looking down at them. I'd far rather be able to go and see people out and about socialising, at work, in town, living their lives, than being miserable and negatively affected by mental health for not feeling protected.
Likewise, if people are carefree and don't care, as long as they don't push their agenda onto others, or judge others, or behave in a way that is unfair to others then they should have as much freedom and right as others.
I guess the argument comes to whether your actions impact the lives of others, and also whether or not we're having to pay (NHS etc...) though that's incredibly hard to do as freedom of choice comes with positive and negative consequences.
Caporegime
I'd strongly recommend those banging on about it being rushed through and how vaccines have killed millions read this book: https://www.waterstones.com/book/vaxxers/sarah-gilbert/catherine-green/9781399709347
No it hasn’t, please provide proof of your comments
Man of Honour
Working in a Trust Legal Department I haven't heard of one case and strangely enough not one conspiracy theorist relative has claimed such with the death of a parent and we've had quite a few CT relatives spouting crap.
We have had many staff who had adverse effects after the vaccine with some quite serious, my closest colleague won't have another one.
The closest we got to a 'vaccine' death was a patient who ended up getting Guillain-Barré Syndrome and eventually died HOWEVER any vaccine can trigger it.
So I'd love to know where these millions are when the countries third biggest Trust hasn't had a single case.
Yes I do believe that beyond my Trust there has been some very rare cases and some people have died but saying millions is ridiculous.
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Soldato
The vaccine was missold to the public. It isn't a vaccine in the general understanding of the meaning of the word.
Vaccines stop you getting the virus. That is how this was sold to the public "get the vaccine to protect yourself and vulnerable people around you".
It didn't stop the person getting covid or passing it on. Pfizer even admit they never tested if having the vaccine stops transmission.
The government was talking crap and being the promotions department for the companies, giving them legal protection.
I thought something seemed odd when the head medical doctor in the US government was ripping up a shirt and giving instructions to make a cloth mask.
When a government is acting imbecilic then it's not unreasonable for people to start asking questions, even when they come to wrong conclusions.
People's anger is misdirected against the CT when OUR government specifically exposed us to covid by not immediately shutting the borders, like other countries did. They only eventually partially closed the borders when people started highlighting the inaction.
What is more concerning is the credibility of the government as dropped so much that people are down playing covid, as long covid is sweeping across the country.
Vaccines stop you getting the virus. That is how this was sold to the public "get the vaccine to protect yourself and vulnerable people around you".
It didn't stop the person getting covid or passing it on. Pfizer even admit they never tested if having the vaccine stops transmission.
The government was talking crap and being the promotions department for the companies, giving them legal protection.
I thought something seemed odd when the head medical doctor in the US government was ripping up a shirt and giving instructions to make a cloth mask.
When a government is acting imbecilic then it's not unreasonable for people to start asking questions, even when they come to wrong conclusions.
People's anger is misdirected against the CT when OUR government specifically exposed us to covid by not immediately shutting the borders, like other countries did. They only eventually partially closed the borders when people started highlighting the inaction.
What is more concerning is the credibility of the government as dropped so much that people are down playing covid, as long covid is sweeping across the country.
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Man of Honour
We've been through this myth many times, nobody said it would stop it.
One of the Mods tried to link proof but it said words like 'Might' or 'Could'.
It was always marketed that it should reduce the effects.
You need a break from the world to go read up on some facts. Your conspiracy led thoughts here are very concerning. I wish you a speedy recovery.
Man of Honour
He's 100% correct about us not shutting the borders quicker.
Soldato
If the vaccine worked I would never have got covid.
I was shielding. The only person I came in contact with was my Dad. He's had all the vaccines and boosters.
Using might and could was to give a false impression, while being legally protected.
I'm having a forced break from the world, at 13 months bedbound thanks!
Your brainwashed about the vaccine just like vaccine CT people are.
Focus on covid!
I'm putting you on ignore for a while. I can't stand people who's immediate reaction is to condemn and patronise people LIVING with the virus.
That's COVID and other diseases that we can now fortunately vaccinate against (it's worrying that some of these diseases that had been virtually eradicated are returning because of attitudes like these).
Man of Honour
Nobody claimed you wouldn't get Covid, they said it would reduce the effects of it.
The links that were put on here saying experts claimed it would stop Covid were using words like 'might' or 'could' or similar.
Working closely with Infection Control everybody in our hospital knew it wouldn't stop Covid.
You probably listened to Bob on Facebook who claimed scientists claimed that.
We also had to rethink when Delta came out in 2021.
COVID-19 vaccines never promised perfection. Experts say it's time to curb our highest expectations
It is increasingly clear mRNA vaccines aren’t going to prevent infection in the upper respiratory tract of some proportion of the vaccinated.
www.pbs.org
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It did stop the original version of the virus from being transmitted, unfortunately the virus mutated too quickly for us to catch up due to failures by politicians. Politicians are to blame not the vaccines.
We were still using the vaccines designed against the original version of the virus to tackle Omicron, that's how slow we were. That was the problem, because populist politicians let it spread through their failures and their 'let it rip' attitude, this resulted in rapid mutation which outpaced our vaccine efforts and raised the threshold for herd immunity to pretty much impossible levels.
It mutated in a way that grealy benefitted the virus and not our vaccination efforts. It's the same mechanism that allows it to reinfect people so many times and in relatively short time periods (that was always the flaw with Johnson's 'herd immunity' plan. At least if you gain your immunity through vaccination the virus does not mutate).
That's why it became a global pandemic and is still very much with us despite all our advances in technology and healthcare, it is truly an exceptional virus.
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