COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

SexyGreyFox said:
Nobody claimed you wouldn't get Covid, they said it would reduce the effects of it.
The links that were put on here saying experts claimed it would stop Covid were using words like 'might' or 'could' or similar.
Working closely with Infection Control everybody in our hospital knew it wouldn't stop Covid.
You probably listened to Bob on Facebook who claimed scientists claimed that.
We also had to rethink when Delta came out in 2021.

www.pbs.org

COVID-19 vaccines never promised perfection. Experts say it's time to curb our highest expectations

It is increasingly clear mRNA vaccines aren’t going to prevent infection in the upper respiratory tract of some proportion of the vaccinated.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
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True, but this is because it had mutated significantly to evade previous immunity by the time we were vaccinating people. They did stop the original version of the virus which the initial vaccines were designed against.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
Nobody claimed you wouldn't get Covid, they said it would reduce the effects of it.
The links that were put on here saying experts claimed it would stop Covid were using words like 'might' or 'could' or similar.
Working closely with Infection Control everybody in our hospital knew it wouldn't stop Covid.
You probably listened to Bob on Facebook who claimed scientists claimed that.
We also had to rethink when Delta came out in 2021.

www.pbs.org

COVID-19 vaccines never promised perfection. Experts say it's time to curb our highest expectations

It is increasingly clear mRNA vaccines aren’t going to prevent infection in the upper respiratory tract of some proportion of the vaccinated.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
Click to expand...

Ok, a genuine question, what other vaccine still allows the vaccinated person to be infected by the virus they have been vaccinated against?
 
BowdonUK said:
Ok, a genuine question, what other vaccine still allows the vaccinated person to be infected by the virus they have been vaccinated against?
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Most of them? IIRC only a handful of vaccines give close to 100% effectiveness.

www.who.int

Vaccine efficacy, effectiveness and protection

www.who.int www.who.int

COVID-19 vaccines have proven to be safe, effective and life-saving. Like all vaccines, they do not fully protect everyone who is vaccinated
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As usual, CT's originate from people with a lack of understanding of the subject they are talking about.
 
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Yup, vaccines don't provide full protection. They just give your body a fighting chance. Generally, hey're more effective on very slow mutating DNA viruses, less so for faster RNA ones such as flu and covid.
 
BowdonUK said:
Ok, a genuine question, what other vaccine still allows the vaccinated person to be infected by the virus they have been vaccinated against?
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Virtually all of them but you should get a less severe form.

I had a malaria jab before I went to Nigeria and it's a good job it was mandatory because I think without it I would have died.

I might be wrong but I had a chickenpox vaccine when I was younger but still had chickenpox and then later in life had shingles.
Hopefully that vaccine reduced the severity.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
Virtually all of them but you should get a less severe form.

I had a malaria jab before I went to Nigeria and it's a good job it was mandatory because I think without it I would have died.

I might be wrong but I had a chickenpox vaccine when I was younger but still had chickenpox and then later in life had shingles.
Hopefully that vaccine reduced the severity.
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Ok I stand corrected.

Thanks guys for explaining it to me.

I think I'm just frustrated with cabin fever being stuck in bed for 13 months.
 
BowdonUK said:
Ok, a genuine question, what other vaccine still allows the vaccinated person to be infected by the virus they have been vaccinated against?
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All of them. A vaccine isn't a force field that prevents them ever entering your body. All it does is prime your immune system to fight it off before it takes hold and makes you contagious. If enough people are never contagious, it stops the spread.
As pointed out above, Flu keeps mutating. A lot of viruses don't, so 1 vaccine early in life is enough.
 
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ltron said:
That's COVID and other diseases that we can now fortunately vaccinate against (it's worrying that some of these diseases that had been virtually eradicated are returning because of attitudes like these).
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This doesn't make any sense - what are you trying to say ?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Working in a Trust Legal Department I haven't heard of one case and strangely enough not one conspiracy theorist relative has claimed such with the death of a parent and we've had quite a few CT relatives spouting crap.
We have had many staff who had adverse effects after the vaccine with some quite serious, my closest colleague won't have another one.
The closest we got to a 'vaccine' death was a patient who ended up getting Guillain-Barré Syndrome and eventually died HOWEVER any vaccine can trigger it.
So I'd love to know where these millions are when the countries third biggest Trust hasn't had a single case.

Yes I do believe that beyond my Trust there has been some very rare cases and some people have died but saying millions is ridiculous.
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If a patient developed Guillain Barre syndrome as a consequence of the vaccine, and then subsequently died, that is still a vaccine related death. Or are you suggesting there was another cause ? I personally know three people who died secondary to ( thrombo-embolic ) complications from the AZ vaccine. Independent studies have suggested there could be as many as 17 million deaths worldwide from the vaccines ( combined ) but the truth is we'll probably never know the full extent of the damage caused because of how politicised this topic is. And by the way, I also work at an NHS Trust, and we had several vaccine related deaths. There are many more examples of patients, and staff, who suffered life changing side-effects following vaccination. This is not as benign a treatment as you make it out to be.
 
tom_e said:
He's saying that due to some people refusing common vaccines for whatever reason that some diseases are making a comeback as the vaccination rate drops
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Yeah, I understood the second part, and he's partially correct - some people have had an anti-vaxx mindset long before the pandemic hit - and this been one of several factors contributing toward a resurgence of previously controlled infections. The first part of his comment makes no sense to me, however.
 
xaldub said:
If a patient developed Guillain Barre syndrome as a consequence of the vaccine, and then subsequently died, that is still a vaccine related death.
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Yes of course but if you look up how you can get that illness it isn't only related to the Covid vaccine, he could have had an Hepatitis jab and that could have caused it.
Somebody stated the Covid vaccine had caused millions of deaths and I only know of one but he could have died if he had a flu vaccine.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Yes of course but if you look up how you can get that illness it isn't only related to the Covid vaccine, he could have had an Hepatitis jab and that could have caused it.
Somebody stated the Covid vaccine had caused millions of deaths and I only know of one but he could have died if he had a flu vaccine.
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But the medical staff would have been aware of any other relevant details, such as other recent vaccinations, new cancer diagnosis etc. Whilst it is a rare condition, it's actually quite straightforward to diagnose and establish what the likely cause is. I have treated multiple patients with GB - so I speak from experience. Not sure why your Trust is being indecisive with this case. Incidentally, one of my colleagues was medically retired during the pandemic because of GB induced by the Pfizer vaccine.
 
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SupraWez said:
It is a sad truth that the covid vaccine has damaged peoples belief in overall vaccines :(
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A lot of people though were this way before. I mean personally my kids got their jabs for all the childhood things etc. that said we also sent them to a chicken pox party.... :o

Other than that though unless we go to places that need things like yellow fever or malaria etc... we won't bother.

this was my first injection since I was a kid. I'm not saying I'm special or invincible or trying to be cool, but unless I have a need for it I don't see the point. The flu vaccine for example never had it, utterly pointless for me.

This is just my perspective and opinion, not asking you to agree, but a lot of people don't get regular vaccines unless they need them.
 
Rroff said:
Some of the stages of testing are usually 3-5 years so in that respect the vaccines have been rushed, to some degree the higher number of people taking part in trials might offset some aspects of that but not everything. The emergency authorisation documents show quite a few steps were skipped or deferred in testing, it is like no one ever read those documents, even if some of those steps are nominally done out of an abundance of caution and have good reasoning for skipping like some of the carcinogenic testing.

I still have a lot of issue with the messaging of how the vaccines were just the same vaccines we've always had just tweaked - that was only true for some of them (attenuated virus, etc.) and those didn't actually turn out so well with AZ withdrawn out of an abundance of caution, while the mRNA/protein based ones are nothing like vaccines we've had before aside from being delivered via an injection.
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I think if this had just been a tweak of another existing vaccine, the sharp intakes of breath now being heard around the mRNA vaccines and the skipping of carcinogenic testing wouldn't be heard, especially now we know that both mRNA vaccine were contaminated with high level DNA/RNA and that Pfizer included an SV40 Promoter sequence in their mRNA code - and then hid that from the regulators (and quite possibly deliberately). Even if it had been tested, it would likely have been done using the "clean" PCR based manufacturing method, rather then the mass production bacterial method.

The single biggest issue with mRNA vaccines is they are specifically designed to deliver that material into the cell nucleus using lipid particles, which is different to every other vaccine in use.

Regulators have been caught sleeping on this, most are just going, nah, it'll be fine (though I suspect in private they'll be raging at Pfizer).
 
Just this second on ITV News a bloke talking about teh Measles epidemic and he says that with just two jabs children can have ALMOST 100% immunity.
They never claim 100% because they daren't.
 
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