Creative X3 and Theater Headphones with X-fi

[Mik3]

I managed to find a poor quality image of the internals, you cant read the component numbers but I think the DAC might be a AK4458VN as you can just read AKM on the chip and thats on only one they make with the same specs.

 

[R3X]

Nice spotting with the deep bios, wonder why Creative are using such an old dac as the AK4458VN. Quick googling of it and few threads here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...flagship-dacs-released-by-asahi-kasei.729302/

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/anyone-heard-of-ak4458vn-dac.18780288/

People were discussing it and had it in hi fi back in 2015, five years ago !

I am half tempted to get the AE9 and compare and send either one back ! Creative have hinted though Xfi sound cards are coming....

 

[EsaT]

Tried Xfi once I mapped my head and ears and signed up

Good test demo here:

Found it was pretty bad, almost feels gimmicky and some marketing ploy to cash in on first listening. Switched it off and stuck to Direct Stereo for the purest and more accurate sound

Any processing of stereo recording is more or less gimmicky.
Stereo recording just doesn't have the spatial information to start with.

Though listening pure stereo recording through headphones is neither accurate.
Because it completely bypasses how sound behaves in nature when traveling from source to ears, which is major part of why we hear things as we hear them.
Lack of that with headphones causes artificial "inside left/right ear, on in center of the head" sound.

Anyway stereo music is really the wrong place for benefits of HRTF.

 

[EsaT]

I managed to find a poor quality image of the internals, you cant read the component numbers but I think the DAC might be a AK4458VN as you can just read AKM on the chip and thats on only one they make with the same specs.

Have to wonder where do people find that bad cameras.
Or are they just blind and can't use cameras...
Because even the worst cellphone camera should be able to do better.

 

[R3X]

Any processing of stereo recording is more or less gimmicky.
Stereo recording just doesn't have the spatial information to start with.

Though listening pure stereo recording through headphones is neither accurate.
Because it completely bypasses how sound behaves in nature when traveling from source to ears, which is major part of why we hear things as we hear them.
Lack of that with headphones causes artificial "inside left/right ear, on in center of the head" sound.

Anyway stereo music is really the wrong place for benefits of HRTF.

Never even thought of sound that way but makes sense, just a complete random OT question Esat but what do you feel is a good choice for a User who just enjoys music and TV/Films, Soundcard's or Headphone Amps and which headphones do you enjoy ?

I know sound is subjective and were all different just like to hear opinions

 

[b00merang69]

I agree and will no doubt upset the headphone snobs but we do not hear most things 1" from our ears like two people shouting in your ears at same time but it can make things seem to sound better as you get that isolated feeling.

I often wonder how many of these actual audiophiles could pass proper hearing test and if they even had the best hearing to start with.

Ideally a high end Hi-Fi from 80-90's with CD deck blasting out on two speakers and some of them only needed a Treble/Mid/Bass knob not a EQ with 14+ bands.

At the end of the day as said above its subjective from person to person so if its artificially jacked up via surround mode or EQ and if you like that sound then that is fine.

 

[R3X]

I agree and will no doubt upset the headphone snobs but we do not hear most things 1" from our ears like two people shouting in your ears at same time but it can make things seem to sound better as you get that isolated feeling.

I often wonder how many of these actual audiophiles could pass proper hearing test and if they even had the best hearing to start with.

Ideally a high end Hi-Fi from 80-90's with CD deck blasting out on two speakers and some of them only needed a Treble/Mid/Bass knob not a EQ with 14+ bands.

At the end of the day as said above its subjective from person to person so if its artificially jacked up via surround mode or EQ and if you like that sound then that is fine.

Out of interest what is your current go to Audio set up ?

 

[R3X]

Ordered one yesterday, used the 15% discount code then the points i got from ordering my AE-9 with them and it came to £81.49 including delivery

Rude not too try one at that price.

Amidar do you mind letting me know if you preferred your AE9 over the X3 please, I think your probably the only one almost on the whole internet to have both.

Just left pondering if AE9 is better then the X3 or not worth it

 

[Amidar]

Amidar do you mind letting me know if you preferred your AE9 over the X3 please, I think your probably the only one almost on the whole internet to have both.

Just left pondering if AE9 is better then the X3 or not worth it

For gaming i prefer the X3's Super X-Fi, for music it would be the AE-9 but for a general all rounder i would probably have to say the X3 and save £200.

 

[R3X]

For gaming i prefer the X3's Super X-Fi, for music it would be the AE-9 but for a general all rounder i would probably have to say the X3 and save £200.

Cheers good to know, quite a few are swopping the op-amps on the AE9 for the burson vivid v6s to improve the sound quality here;
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/creative-soundblasterx-ae-9.895052/page-4

 

[EsaT]

Never even thought of sound that way but makes sense, just a complete random OT question Esat but what do you feel is a good choice for a User who just enjoys music and TV/Films, Soundcard's or Headphone Amps and which headphones do you enjoy ?

Movies require binaural sound simulation to give proper immersion with headphones.
And they've got the surround sound with spatial information as source for HRTF.
Dolby Headphone was actually designed for imitating movie theater's sound using headphones.

In case of music it depends on how it's been recorded and mixed.
Some are good straight, while others have strong articial inside one ear feel without at least crossfeed.
Though for headphone listening music should be binaural recording:

That's the natural way we hear things and was actually in use in audio before all this "stereo" hype:
https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/12/...ural-immersive-vr-sound-times-square-new-york
https://hookeaudio.com/blog/binaural-3d-audio/the-history-of-binaural-audio-part-1/


I'm using Sound Blaster ZxR (got second hand some five years ago) and Objective2 headphone amplifier.
(actually assembled two O2s to be able to use two different impedance and sensitivity headphones simultaneously)
Sound cards of the time didn't have that good headphone outputs, including TPA6120 hyped by Asus:
Because it has slew rate more fit for radio transmitter than audio use and requires output impedance rising 10 ohm series resistor to guarantee stable operation into all loads.

Have been considering getting external sound card with direct control for disabling/enabling processing and customized Super X-Fi HRTF would certainly be nice for games/movies.
Sound Blaster X3 is just lower than year ago released Sound BlasterX G6, so going to wait little if there are new Super X-Fi using models. (there's certainly product position open below old SB X7)
Creative did stupidly in releasing very expensive Sound BlasterX AE-7 and AE-9 with only old fixed HRTF and should have delayed their release.
It's like their right hand didn't know what left was doing and vice versa.

For headphones I have Beyerdynamic DT990, bought to replace crumbling after 2½ years fashion design bling bling plastics HD595 Sennheiser and couple years ago second hand bought AKG K702 for neutral reference (would be absolute top choise for competive gaming) and K712 with DT990 like above neutral bass.
After using mostly K712 in past years have lately used mostly DT990.
AKG simply can't touch comfort of those Beyer's velour pads and lighter pressure.
Because of that "automatic" adjustment AKGs rely also on pressure to keep ear cups positioned.

Cheers good to know, quite a few are swopping the op-amps on the AE9 for the burson vivid v6s to improve the sound quality here;
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/creative-soundblasterx-ae-9.895052/page-4

Except for binaural cues human hearing system is pretty much trash as any kind absolute measuring instrument and doesn't know anything about accuracy.
What we consciously hear is simply only small part of actual data received by ears and heavily filtered and processed.
Because that was evolutionary advantage:
Like being able to "tune out" continuous background sounds, but notice changes of it, or some momentary sound which might have meant approaching enemy/predator.
Also expectations affect to how we perceive things and human senses are very easily fooled. (that's what magicians do lot)
And in general who would want to admit of having been fooled to buy something useless/totally overpriced.
All which is good encouragement for brain to be creative.

Because of that all testing should be done blind without knowing what's listened to avoid psychological biases.
And suddenly all those hyped differences might not be there...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html
Really good example in this after three minutes.

So if there are actually hearable differences, for which proof is very slim, there's zero guarantee for those meaning more accurate sound.
Except for some opamp models which are each other's clones/copies all have some differing characteristics. Needing circuitry and PCB design fit for those to guarantee accurate operation/best performance.
Hence random swapping of opamps without actual testing using measuring instruments is as likely to just worsen signal quality than increase it.
Especially opamp's slew rate is big factor and too high slew rate is easily like oversteering driver, who at worst case gets car to swerve and otu of road even in straight road.
That TPA6120 being good example, requiring that "speed limiting" output resistor to keep it stable.

And "discrete opamps" are own chapter.
In integrated audio opamp all parts of its circuitry have been designed to work with each others.
They can even use custom design transistors etc not available as discrete components.
Also with all parts being on same piece of silicon they have identical temperature behaviour.
Meaning it's lot easier to achieve stable operation at different temperatures.

While it's possible to achieve same precision with discrete components, that needs huge amount more work.
From design and component selection all the way to even matching of individual critical parts during construction.
And then there's same old if it works well with rest of the circuitry/PCB design.
So there's plenty of scientific reasons to be sceptical about all the clames of "audiophiles".

And as usual it's good to remember that the bigger moneys are involved in something, the more there are lies around it.

 

[Amidar]

Cheers good to know, quite a few are swopping the op-amps on the AE9 for the burson vivid v6s to improve the sound quality here;
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/creative-soundblasterx-ae-9.895052/page-4

The problem with that is the prices of the opamps, they use 2 x dual & 2 x single the same as the Z range of cards.

https://www.bursonaudio.com/creative-sound-blaster-z-zx-zxr-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/

 

[R3X]

Movies require binaural sound simulation to give proper immersion with headphones.
And they've got the surround sound with spatial information as source for HRTF.
Dolby Headphone was actually designed for imitating movie theater's sound using headphones.

In case of music it depends on how it's been recorded and mixed.
Some are good straight, while others have strong articial inside one ear feel without at least crossfeed.
Though for headphone listening music should be binaural recording:

That's the natural way we hear things and was actually in use in audio before all this "stereo" hype:
https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/12/...ural-immersive-vr-sound-times-square-new-york
https://hookeaudio.com/blog/binaural-3d-audio/the-history-of-binaural-audio-part-1/


I'm using Sound Blaster ZxR (got second hand some five years ago) and Objective2 headphone amplifier.
(actually assembled two O2s to be able to use two different impedance and sensitivity headphones simultaneously)
Sound cards of the time didn't have that good headphone outputs, including TPA6120 hyped by Asus:
Because it has slew rate more fit for radio transmitter than audio use and requires output impedance rising 10 ohm series resistor to guarantee stable operation into all loads.

Have been considering getting external sound card with direct control for disabling/enabling processing and customized Super X-Fi HRTF would certainly be nice for games/movies.
Sound Blaster X3 is just lower than year ago released Sound BlasterX G6, so going to wait little if there are new Super X-Fi using models. (there's certainly product position open below old SB X7)
Creative did stupidly in releasing very expensive Sound BlasterX AE-7 and AE-9 with only old fixed HRTF and should have delayed their release.
It's like their right hand didn't know what left was doing and vice versa.

For headphones I have Beyerdynamic DT990, bought to replace crumbling after 2½ years fashion design bling bling plastics HD595 Sennheiser and couple years ago second hand bought AKG K702 for neutral reference (would be absolute top choise for competive gaming) and K712 with DT990 like above neutral bass.
After using mostly K712 in past years have lately used mostly DT990.
AKG simply can't touch comfort of those Beyer's velour pads and lighter pressure.
Because of that "automatic" adjustment AKGs rely also on pressure to keep ear cups positioned.


Except for binaural cues human hearing system is pretty much trash as any kind absolute measuring instrument and doesn't know anything about accuracy.
What we consciously hear is simply only small part of actual data received by ears and heavily filtered and processed.
Because that was evolutionary advantage:
Like being able to "tune out" continuous background sounds, but notice changes of it, or some momentary sound which might have meant approaching enemy/predator.
Also expectations affect to how we perceive things and human senses are very easily fooled. (that's what magicians do lot)
And in general who would want to admit of having been fooled to buy something useless/totally overpriced.
All which is good encouragement for brain to be creative.

Because of that all testing should be done blind without knowing what's listened to avoid psychological biases.
And suddenly all those hyped differences might not be there...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html
Really good example in this after three minutes.

So if there are actually hearable differences, for which proof is very slim, there's zero guarantee for those meaning more accurate sound.
Except for some opamp models which are each other's clones/copies all have some differing characteristics. Needing circuitry and PCB design fit for those to guarantee accurate operation/best performance.
Hence random swapping of opamps without actual testing using measuring instruments is as likely to just worsen signal quality than increase it.
Especially opamp's slew rate is big factor and too high slew rate is easily like oversteering driver, who at worst case gets car to swerve and otu of road even in straight road.
That TPA6120 being good example, requiring that "speed limiting" output resistor to keep it stable.

And "discrete opamps" are own chapter.
In integrated audio opamp all parts of its circuitry have been designed to work with each others.
They can even use custom design transistors etc not available as discrete components.
Also with all parts being on same piece of silicon they have identical temperature behaviour.
Meaning it's lot easier to achieve stable operation at different temperatures.

While it's possible to achieve same precision with discrete components, that needs huge amount more work.
From design and component selection all the way to even matching of individual critical parts during construction.
And then there's same old if it works well with rest of the circuitry/PCB design.
So there's plenty of scientific reasons to be sceptical about all the clames of "audiophiles".

And as usual it's good to remember that the bigger moneys are involved in something, the more there are lies around it.

Thank you that is quite a lot of information, will watch that video after. I can certainly agree I can not be 100% if the sound I am hearing was 100% better or not half the time.

I believe someone mentioned over on reddit forums that Creative do have X-fi soundcards due in the future, this is why I was puzzled by Ae7 and 9 without the xfi feature.

I need to give xfi bit more testing in movies and see how it goes.

 

[R3X]

The problem with that is the prices of the opamps, they use 2 x dual & 2 x single the same as the Z range of cards.

https://www.bursonaudio.com/creative-sound-blaster-z-zx-zxr-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/

Yeah very pricey even with the package discounted price, Id still love to just get an AE9 and the op amps but then if I did that id call it done done and maybe in future look at better headphones had my eye on the Sen hd 820s but they cost a fortune still, then always the question if the difference is there even or worth the wallet thrashing.

I was gonna say Creative offer a 30 day no quibble refund policy I believe, check the terms but you could return the x3 if you dont sell it off that is.

 

[R3X]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAjTI4aHfvg&t=528s

 

[--Chris--]

Hello

I have a Creative AE-5 but who suffers from parasite because of my new configuration. So I'm looking for an external version. I hesitate between the X3 and the X7.
My settings on my AE-5 are +50 bass, + 3db 62Hz, + 3db 125 Hz, + 1db 8k Hz, + 1db 16K Hz.
I am using the sound card for a DT770 pro type headphones, although at the moment I have a technica audio. What I like with the AE-5 is the audio quality of it and the power. To say for games and discussion the volume I use is 14.
I would like to have a model that is better suited to my needs.
The X7's concern for me is that it's not quite young.
Sorry for my english clearly not good I am french and I write with google translate.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Amidar]

Yeah very pricey even with the package discounted price, Id still love to just get an AE9 and the op amps but then if I did that id call it done done and maybe in future look at better headphones had my eye on the Sen hd 820s but they cost a fortune still, then always the question if the difference is there even or worth the wallet thrashing.

I was gonna say Creative offer a 30 day no quibble refund policy I believe, check the terms but you could return the x3 if you dont sell it off that is.

Sold the X3 and kept the AE-9 till the last AMD AGESA bios update stopped the card working

Ended up selling the AE-9 and replacing it with a Schiit Hel.

 

[R3X]

Sold the X3 and kept the AE-9 till the last AMD AGESA bios update stopped the card working

Ended up selling the AE-9 and replacing it with a Schiit Hel.

Yeah I wish you kept me in mind for that AE-9 I would have paid much more then your asking but missed it by 10 minutes

I would have the same issue but had not updated the bioses but that is pretty poor showing from AMD also so its not so nice.

The Schiit Hel does look amazing and very high quality, how are to finding it over your X3 and your past AE-9 out of interest ?

 

[PapaLazaru]

Ended up selling the AE-9 and replacing it with a Schiit Hel.

The Hel looks nice! Bit overpowered for my Senn headset but when looking I also saw that the new Fulla 3 takes a mic!

Might have to get myself one, they're only £110 and component wise pee all over the X3. May not have SXFI, but I bought one of the dongles when they first came out and returned it, as was not very impressed.

 

[michty_me]

I'm looking at getting one of these X3's for my desktop for listening to music and gaming. I'll be using them with a set of Sennheiser 58X or X2HR (Doesn't really need it I know) but may change my headphones in the future or continue with my newly started collection.