D800 vs D800E?

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 21:34

I've been doing so much reading lately about the differences between the two that I think I'm starting to lose the plot. I have two issues as follows:

Get the D800E as its sharper but probably have to go down the grey import route to afford one and stick to my lens purchase plans
Buy a D800 instead but from a UK stockist for a 2 year warranty and piece of mind, especially if I get the left point focus issue

Now the difference between the D800 and D800E apart from the best part of £400 is that the D800E is sharper, but after reading around, it appears this is only noticable in specific conditions. This is mostly using a lens that can resolve the 36mp count and use the lens at the sharpest aperture. Using a lens wide open on the D800E gives a result that looks pretty much the same as the D800, simply due to the lens. The same can be said at the other end of the spectrum with diffraction literally blurring out the differences between the camera bodies at F11 and above. F16 is literally impossible to tell the difference and this is an aperture that gets used in macro quite often on.

Adding to this, moire is definitely more noticeable on the D800E but most of the time you'd have to go pixel peeping to look for it, especially on the sort of shots I take (which don't include people and probably never will). Due to that, it probably wouldn't be an issue for me.

My questions are, would I ever notice a real difference between a D800 and a D800E for everyday use unless I was pixel peeping? Coupled with this, would I ever notice a difference with my types of photography, which include macro, still life, product photography, architecture and the occasional landscape shot.

I'm going to sell my current DX gear as I won't have any need for it if I get either D800 body so the cash hopefully generated from that will fund a nikon 50mm F1.4G and a nikon 105mm F2.8G VR macro lens to go alongside my Nikon 28-70 F2.8, Nikon AF 300mm F4 and Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 lenses.

The left focal point issue has me really worried when it comes to the grey imports, otherwise I'd have bought either of them from ******* by now and saved myself a few hundred quid. Its just so damn confusing trying to pick the right tool for the job -.-

Any advice or thoughts between the two?

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:24

James J said:
I've been doing so much reading lately about the differences between the two that I think I'm starting to lose the plot. I have two issues as follows:

Get the D800E as its sharper but probably have to go down the grey import route to afford one and stick to my lens purchase plans

Buy a D800 instead but from a UK stockist for a 2 year warranty and piece of mind, especially if I get the left point focus issue

Now the difference between the D800 and D800E apart from the best part of £400 is that the D800E is sharper, but after reading around, it appears this is only noticable in specific conditions. This is mostly using a lens that can resolve the 36mp count and use the lens at the sharpest aperture. Using a lens wide open on the D800E gives a result that looks pretty much the same as the D800, simply due to the lens. The same can be said at the other end of the spectrum with diffraction literally blurring out the differences between the camera bodies at F11 and above. F16 is literally impossible to tell the difference and this is an aperture that gets used in macro quite often on.

Adding to this, moire is definitely more noticeable on the D800E but most of the time you'd have to go pixel peeping to look for it, especially on the sort of shots I take (which don't include people and probably never will). Due to that, it probably wouldn't be an issue for me.

My questions are, would I ever notice a real difference between a D800 and a D800E for everyday use unless I was pixel peeping? Coupled with this, would I ever notice a difference with my types of photography, which include macro, still life, product photography, architecture and the occasional landscape shot.

I'm going to sell my current DX gear as I won't have any need for it if I get either D800 body so the cash hopefully generated from that will fund a nikon 50mm F1.4G and a nikon 105mm F2.8G VR macro lens to go alongside my Nikon 28-70 F2.8, Nikon AF 300mm F4 and Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 lenses.

The left focal point issue has me really worried when it comes to the grey imports, otherwise I'd have bought either of them from ******* by now and saved myself a few hundred quid. Its just so damn confusing trying to pick the right tool for the job -.-

Any advice or thoughts between the two?

There isn't much difference as the D800 filter is already very weak. Moire is a non issue with the E. My D700 has a stronger AA filter, and is more prone to moire than the D800E. From samples the D800E is likely about as susceptible to moire as the 5Diii, with the D800 be much less susceptible.

Regarding sharpness, the AA filter blurs the information coming from the lens, so it will make ANY lens softer. However this softness is harder to see is if the information coming from the lens is soft anyway. Never the less, you will get better MTF figures on any lens using an E Vs Vanilla.

If I was being purely objective, I would get a D800. However I personally would pay couple extra hundred to get the E, as shooting with 2nd best wouldn't satisfy me for long.

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:31

Normally I'd agree with the sentiment of having 2nd best being annoying when the best was only a small step away when I bought it. However, I've been looking at reviews, talking to users and my own little tests for a few weeks now and the differences between the camera's is very hard to notice unless you seriously pixel peep. I'm trying to get away from pixel peeping anyway as it really detracts from the overall experience of photography anyway but I often aim for technical "perfection", which isn't necessarily achievable due to being forced into using settings that won't really exploit the extra prowess of the E model.

The second issue is the grey import vs UK stock conundrum which is driving me insane. UK stock of a D800 is around £2150 atm but the D800E can be had for £2210 via ******* BT. Normally I'd jump at the later as the price is great, yet the 1 year warranty is really off putting, especially with the known problems with the D800 series like the left focus point issue and green WB issues specifically. Seems like a gamble to me but if it paid off it would be great. UK stock of the D800E is £350 more expensive than *******'s price -.-

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:36

I don't get your warranty worries here. The Cam will either has left AF issues or it won't. The only thing that would even be worth considering is if you think your going to be taking endless pictures, so many you think the shutter might die within the second year.

Lastly, if your not pixel peeping, stick with the D300s.

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:38

Also, photography is a hobby for me, I don't buy what a 'need', I buy what a 'want'.

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:39

An Exception said:
I don't get your warranty worries here. The Cam will either has left AF issues or it won't. The only thing that would even be worth considering is if you think your going to be taking endless pictures, so many you think the shutter might die within the second year.

Lastly, if your not pixel peeping, stick with the D300s.

Can't as I require the larger prints which I use to be able to provide with my 5D mk ii. The D600 on paper sounds pretty good but the fact its in a smaller body which is less robust really doesn't interest me as I use to own a D5100 and I felt it was far too small for my hands.

You are probably right in regards to the AF issue and I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'll just look at getting some sort of 3rd party insurance on the body instead if I go grey import and that'll probably sooth the concerns I have.

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:41

An Exception said:
Also, photography is a hobby for me, I don't buy what a 'need', I buy what a 'want'.

Even so you've expressed your interest in going full time wedding tog have you not? Its still my hobby regardless of what else I require out of the body. The D800 is the prime choice for me as its a good crop and an excellent full frame camera in one.

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:42

D600 is nearly as big as D800. This is WAY bigger than you D5100.
I also read it was weather sealed, so doubt it's any less sealed than the D800.

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:43

James J said:
Even so you've expressed your interest in going full time wedding tog have you not? Its still my hobby regardless of what else I require out of the body. The D800 is the prime choice for me as its a good crop and an excellent full frame camera in one.

If your not pixel peeping you don't need the crop factor anyway, thus 24mp is enough.

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:45

James J said:
Even so you've expressed your interest in going full time wedding tog have you not? Its still my hobby regardless of what else I require out of the body. The D800 is the prime choice for me as its a good crop and an excellent full frame camera in one.

Even if it was my full time profession, it's still my hobby. The day it stops being my hobby, is the day I stop having fun.

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:49

An Exception said:
D600 is nearly as big as D800. This is WAY bigger than you D5100.
I also read it was weather sealed, so doubt it's any less sealed than the D800.

True, but the DX mode on it isn't as good, neither is the AF system, especially in low light.

An Exception said:
If your not pixel peeping you don't need the crop factor anyway, thus 24mp is enough.

See above

An Exception said:
Even if it was my full time profession, it's still my hobby. The day it stops being my hobby, is the day I stop having fun.

I'm not sure why you have the impression that photography isn't my hobby anymore or that I don't enjoy it, but you are wrong on both accounts

Doing product shots makes up around 10% of my entire library, if that. I'll never be a full time tog, nor do I want to be one. Too busy with my studies and then hospital lab work, plus I'd still like a holiday where I don't need to worry about not being paid.

Auraomega · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:51

Get the D800E from a UK stockist? Piece of mind and you get the best camera going. We have 1 in my shop

Moire is a non-issue, from what I've seen most Nikon lenses don't have the ability to resolve enough detail to excite moire, and even if you can, it'll be such a small amount of detail in what is a huge photo. If you're questioning whether to get the D800E or plain old D800 you'll never be happy with the latter. Having seen results from both the D800 and the D800E I can safely say that I can see a difference in sharpness without peeping, however the customer who provided the shots was using a medium format lens rather than a Nikkor lens so your mileage may vary

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:55

Auraomega said:
Get the D800E from a UK stockist? Piece of mind and you get the best camera going. We have 1 in my shop

Moire is a non-issue, from what I've seen most Nikon lenses don't have the ability to resolve enough detail to excite moire, and even if you can, it'll be such a small amount of detail in what is a huge photo. If you're questioning whether to get the D800E or plain old D800 you'll never be happy with the latter. Having seen results from both the D800 and the D800E I can safely say that I can see a difference in sharpness without peeping, however the customer who provided the shots was using a medium format lens rather than a Nikkor lens so your mileage may vary

UK stock is pretty damn expensive though. How much are you charging for it in your shop (which ever that is lol)? In most places I've seen its around £2548 (ish) with one of the better deals including a nikon 2320 bag + 16gb SD card for free. The price of the grey import vs UK stock is the price of the battery grip -.-

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:57

With a 30" (2560*1600) screen, it's not really like I need to try to pixel peep anyway. 50-60% magnification fit's on my screen.

An Exception · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:58

James J said:
UK stock is pretty damn expensive though. How much are you charging for it in your shop (which ever that is lol)? In most places I've seen its around £2548 (ish) with one of the better deals including a nikon 2320 bag + 16gb SD card for free. The price of the grey import vs UK stock is the price of the battery grip -.-

I seen one on ebay for £2500, UK stock, 2 year warranty.

James J · 22 Sep 2012 at 23:59

An Exception said:
With a 30" (2560*1600) screen, it's not really like I need to try to pixel peep anyway. 50-60% magnification fit's on my screen.

Bit different for me, as I'm waiting for the iMacs to be refreshed, so until that point I'm using a 13inch MBA! Its not ideal but I get by.

James J · 23 Sep 2012 at 00:00

An Exception said:
I seen one on ebay for £2500, UK stock, 2 year warranty.

I'd never spend £2500 via ebay for a UK camera though. I'd rather spend the extra £50 and get it from a reputable store just for the extra peace of mind.

DJ_Switch · 23 Sep 2012 at 15:03

James J said:
My questions are, would I ever notice a real difference between a D800 and a D800E for everyday use unless I was pixel peeping? Coupled with this, would I ever notice a difference with my types of photography, which include macro, still life, product photography, architecture and the occasional landscape shot.

I'm going to sell my current DX gear as I won't have any need for it if I get either D800 body so the cash hopefully generated from that will fund a nikon 50mm F1.4G and a nikon 105mm F2.8G VR macro lens to go alongside my Nikon 28-70 F2.8, Nikon AF 300mm F4 and Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 lenses.

The left focal point issue has me really worried when it comes to the grey imports, otherwise I'd have bought either of them from ******* by now and saved myself a few hundred quid. Its just so damn confusing trying to pick the right tool for the job -.-

Any advice or thoughts between the two?

The answer to whether you'd notice any difference without pixel peeping is pretty much no. I did a lot of research before deciding which one to go for and I simply don't believe anyone who says they can tell the difference without pixel peeping. I ended up going for the D800 over the "E" as I also use it for video and here the AA filter does actually help. It is in cameras for a reason afterall. What ended up being the deciding factor however was that the "E" variant has far more colour fringing issues. Granted you'd need to look pretty close again but when it introduces more moire, additional colour fringing and the benefits of the "E" can't even be seen unless pixel peeping then the choice became a bit easier. I don't deny there is a difference but there's just not enough of a difference that makes any real world or easily perceptible gain over the regular one.

As for the issues with the camera...I've one of the early batches and I can safely say that I've had zero issues with it. The proportion of people that claim to have some of these problems seem very small for the amount of cameras that have been sold and I've seen a lot of the same people making a lot of noise about it online. I'd be exactly the same if I'd had the issue but I think it's far less common than some would love to have you believe.

In short...whatever one you end up going for you'll be very happy with it. It's quite simply an amazing camera. The dynamic range of it is stunning and anyone saying it's not that important simply hasn't experienced it.

One thing I would recommend is fitting it with a DK-17m magnifier and Dk-19 eyecup. Not only does it make the viewfinder image bigger but it makes the eyepiece sit further back from the camera body. If you're left eye dominant then trust me that this is something you'll want with the D800. This combo has made the camera hugely more pleasurable to use. Even if none of the above reasons provide any benefit to you the eyecup alone is far comfier than the standard cup (when turned down).

An Exception said:
If your not pixel peeping you don't need the crop factor anyway, thus 24mp is enough.

Usually I'd agree that 24mp is more than enough. Even when the D800 was announced I was unhappy about the resolution and file sizes. It certainly wasn't a plus point of the camera however since having it I've grown to really appreciate the extra resolution. It makes a huge difference to noise and high iso performance when you're downsizing the image. I rarely find myself heavily cropping anything although on the odd occasion when I have then the extra resolution has been most welcome.

James J · 23 Sep 2012 at 16:01

Thanks for the feedback mate, puts my mind at rest. In regards to the eyecup though, I thought that one wasn't that hot for glasses wearers, which I'm part of due to being short sighted? How much am I looking at for each of these btw? I've never heard of the magnifier before.

James J · 23 Sep 2012 at 17:27

Just noticed that jessops are doing the D800 at a great price for UK stock with a £100 discount code (100OFFD800) bringing it down to £2048.14. At that price, I'm sorely tempted to go for the UK model over a grey import.