Most premium laptops are around the same price and spec as Apple's equivalent anyway (e.g Lenovo's X230/X1 Carbon is around the same price as a MBA or MBP, same thing with Samsung and Asus), sure you can get a cheaper model from Asus that has the same processor or whatever, but it won't come close to the fit and finish of any manufacturer's premium line.
D800 vs D800E?
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Soldato
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Regardless of the law or rules etc. it is BS, Apple get's away with murder in the courts.
Again, your opinion, not mine. Its vastly easier for a company to design software for a small and highly specific selection of hardware and make it great compared to a company that has to cater for all in some shape or form. Apple do the right thing for keeping OSX and iOS on their devices and not putting it onto none apple products as it gives its customers far better quality of service due to this. I don't even understand why you are seemingly annoyed about apples operating system not being available to you unless you buy an apple product if you hate it so much :S
Apple employ some of the best designers and engineers in the industry, so of course they are in court often protecting their patents as they invented the patents to stop other companies copying their work. How is that any different to you taking another photographer to court if they tried to pass your wedding photos off as theirs...
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Apple is like a legal mafia. They are patent trolls. They patent simple idiotic stuff, as well as crap they didn't even invent. Therefore the stifle innovation and competition. They are very crafty which courts they sue in. They lock out 3rd party competition so they can charge you more. They should be sued like M$ was for their anti-competitive practices.
I like some of apples products, I have an iphone and thinking about an ipad. The way apple is doing business these days is putting me off a little, and not least that they seem to have a growing elitist and cult-like user base.
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Caporegime
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Errrr
I have an iPad and a 24" iMac ? lol
And I am planning getting an i7 with a 27" screen with SSD, the whole thing will be silent and fast.
As for the OS is irrelevant when doing LR and PS stuff. True, that that is only true within LR/PS. I use my computer for other stuff too.
Plus, I like the OS, I really am tired of the endless updates from MS, the endless drivers, the separate tower, the added cables everywhere (only 1 power cable for the iMac), I just like OSX.
I now see computers as a way to serve me, Apple stuff serves me. I find that Microsoft windows I have to serve it. I have to keep servicing it to keep it running smooth. It's not like I don't know how, I just don't want to now. I don't want to bother to look into the latest Anti-Virus or firewall to use, the latest spyware to run, regular defrag the drives, update this and that drivers.
It's a total waste of time. On OSX its like:
"You have update" Click, download, install.
It happens once in 6 months and it is so much easier, there are no "critical updates" or "non-critical" updates. I like how it is simplified.
Can I get a cheaper Windows operated PC? Yes.
Can I get OSX installed in a non-Apple hardware? Probably.
Can I be bothered to install OSX in a non-Apple hardware? No, I just can't be bothered. Don't have the time. Time better spent doing work.
Do I mind paying that X percentage more for Apple stuff? No.
Do I care what randoms think of my purchases? Not in the slightest.
Do I care how they run their business? No, I buy their products, not their ethics.
Also, with Apple, any problem you take it to the Genius bar and they WILL fix it for you, with Applecare (which I can get for free), everything is covered. If my windows PC breaks, I have to pay some guy in a shop to fix it or spend ages fixing it myself. For 10 years I've done that, been there, got the T-shirt and I don't want to do it anymore.
Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment Ray and personally I chose to use an iMac (even at work where I'm a Windows administrator) you are slightly deluded if you think Apple only send updates twice a year
there are countless safari/iTunes/security updates every other week and you're still subjected to the same browser/flash/java updates as you are in Windows. Apple struggle to keep consistency between major revisions and will leave out or rewrite fundamentals of the OS at their whim which can be very frustrating.
Either way, OS X and Windows both achieve the same in the end and defending one over the other just shows a lack of understanding which is to be expected if someone is only used to one way. Disputing the differences is a bit pointless.
Soldato
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Without being too much of a preacher, I don't think you realise how damaging that mindset is.. diamond anyone?
Caporegime
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Of all that, is that the best argument you have for me?
If I start applying strict ethics on everything I buy, I would be living like the Amish. I would love a world that is fair and everyone get a fair deal but we live in a capitalist society and what am I going to do? Start using PC because I do not like their ethics?
So I end up wasting more time keeping the PC running smooth.
Spend less time serving my clients.
Or run OSX, without a user licence, ripping off their copyright so get around the ethics but along the way breaking something which we are all dead against as a photographer?
I like the stuff Apple makes, they work, they serve me, I pay with it with money that I work very hard from.
That's the bottom line of it.
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Caporegime
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Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment Ray and personally I chose to use an iMac (even at work where I'm a Windows administrator) you are slightly deluded if you think Apple only send updates twice a year
Apple struggle to keep consistency between major revisions and will leave out or rewrite fundamentals of the OS at their whim which can be very frustrating.
Either way, OS X and Windows both achieve the same in the end and defending one over the other just shows a lack of understanding which is to be expected if someone is only used to one way. Disputing the differences is a bit pointless.
There may be more, but 90% of them do not require a reboot, click and forget.
Plus, a new OS is like £20, rather cheap compare to windows.
Personally I hate Apple and their arrogance. Their latest PR release hopefully points towards a change now turtle neck has gone, but as it's been pointed out to death, so I'll keep it very short, you can get a PC for much less money and have the same spec. Same with laptops. Before I decided to upgrade my camera kit, I was looking for a laptop and did look at buying the top end Apple laptop (Was £3800 for what it's worth, with all the upgrades I'd choose to have). If you look on other sites that I won't link to, but actually OCUK do them too, a same spec laptop is £2000 cheaper.
I only wanted an Apple laptop because I fancied a change and via finance was willing to get one, but I'd be reluctant to spend a truck load of cash on one in one go (yes, it's a daft mindset I'll grant you
). I ended up seriously thinking about all the things I do due to the price and decided against it. While I had a reason to consider one, some do the sheep thing and swallow the Apple hype whole.
The long and short of it is that if you like something and are prepared to spend the money, who is to tell you what to do with your earnings? If I stuck to the moral high ground I'd never have any sports updates in my house, or matches I can see as Murdoch has a hand in everything, the scumbag. If you're happy with using companies that no matter how morally corrupt they are, then except the downsides and get on with it
I only wanted an Apple laptop because I fancied a change and via finance was willing to get one, but I'd be reluctant to spend a truck load of cash on one in one go (yes, it's a daft mindset I'll grant you
). I ended up seriously thinking about all the things I do due to the price and decided against it. While I had a reason to consider one, some do the sheep thing and swallow the Apple hype whole. The long and short of it is that if you like something and are prepared to spend the money, who is to tell you what to do with your earnings? If I stuck to the moral high ground I'd never have any sports updates in my house, or matches I can see as Murdoch has a hand in everything, the scumbag. If you're happy with using companies that no matter how morally corrupt they are, then except the downsides and get on with it
we each have to decided where are morels are at ,
yes
i personally will not use apple products ,
and i would never have sky (or knowing buy any product owned by that scum ).each to there own ,
but i don't think capitalism and morels have to be contradictory.iam alright jack is a bad way for people to live there lives
Similar for win7 now, far fewer restarts required. I think OS X 10.7 was £30 and and Win7 was £70 so hardly a vast difference. No doubt the Win8 upgrade will be less again much like 10.8 was. Plus I don't think you can bring cost saving into an argument in favour of Apple
Although when it was first released I thought the 27" iMac was a relative bargain to say you get a high res IPS screen combined with decent hardware in a sleek, silent package for the same price as a 27" monitor and PC. Presumably the price of large monitors has dropped now though.
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I really don't see the "arrogance", I see a adverts, I see PR. Any arrogance are the perception is the individual.
Like I said, I spent 10 years with windows. I can use it but I prefer the ecosystem of apple. I won't use it if its rubbish, no matter how slick their PR is. I don't have the MBA, nor the new iPhone, I skipped an iPad, 3 years of iMac updates, upgrade the RAM myself because theirs is a ripoff. I am not an idiot but I do what I think is the most time vs cost effective for me.
I don't want to cloud it with other stuff like ethics, arrogance or other people's perception. What really matter is how it serves me, keep it about the work, keep it simple.
Like I said, I spent 10 years with windows. I can use it but I prefer the ecosystem of apple. I won't use it if its rubbish, no matter how slick their PR is. I don't have the MBA, nor the new iPhone, I skipped an iPad, 3 years of iMac updates, upgrade the RAM myself because theirs is a ripoff. I am not an idiot but I do what I think is the most time vs cost effective for me.
I don't want to cloud it with other stuff like ethics, arrogance or other people's perception. What really matter is how it serves me, keep it about the work, keep it simple.
You must walk around naked seen as most clothing companies have used cheap far eastern child labour at some point...
Its this sort of moral garbage which I'll never understand. Its like vegetarians thinking that eating animals is wrong because they are living, breathing organisms, yet plants aren't exactly dead are they. They just aren't cute so no one cares.
Anyway this thread has gone well and truly off topic so lets try and reclaim it. Think I'm gonna go with two bodies instead of just one and keep what I have as a backup. Contemplating a D3/D3s or a D700 atm!
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Not really trying to argue, just wanted to make you aware that our actions have consequences. I'm not even saying don't buy Apple, neither am I pro PC or M$. All I'm saying is that there would be much more 'good' in the world if people didn't think like "I buy their products, not their ethics", because ultimately their ethics are yours.
To get back to the question at hand (instead of preaching like a do gooder), I think your wrong, your imac is costing you time/money.
How long does it take to process your files? How long does it take to export your images?
It takes me minutes to batch action hundred's of images, and neither have I any issues with reliability or maintenance, and I don't have to 'keep' updating drivers, that's something gamers will need to do.
The truth is, you could have got yourself a nice 30" display, a top end mini PC like the shuttle R5. No cables everywhere, just a hdmi from the box to the monitor.
Then in a few years you don't have to worry about when apple is going to release the next imac, you just upgrade the components as and when you need to.
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If enough people didn't think like you do, there wouldn't be any child labour to begin with.. and that's a fact.
Caporegime
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That only started I installed LR4 btw. It's been dead fast up until then.
And I HATE updating PC parts, hate it, hate it, hate it. It require research, then back up, format, latest drivers etc etc. Thats what I mean by serving the machine rather than it serves me.
It's new graphic card here, or new CPU there, which needs new mobo, which needs new graphic card because he slots has changed, and need new ram, it's a endless circle. I rather wait a few years and get the whole lot new....which is what I do now with the mac?! Surprised?
And I HATE updating PC parts, hate it, hate it, hate it. It require research, then back up, format, latest drivers etc etc. Thats what I mean by serving the machine rather than it serves me.
It's new graphic card here, or new CPU there, which needs new mobo, which needs new graphic card because he slots has changed, and need new ram, it's a endless circle. I rather wait a few years and get the whole lot new....which is what I do now with the mac?! Surprised?
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Its really not, its your opinion, yet again. Anyways back on topic as this has gone way too far on a tangent now.
there's no need to be insulting
as i say we each have to decide where are own morels are at ,if that company's is well away from mine i choose not to support them ,but yep thread back on track time
.
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Soldato
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No it's fact not opinion. I don't want to stay off topic any longer, but it's pretty strait forward how it works.