Danny Baker sacked

[VincentHanna]

Its not about being a celebrity.

Anyone who does anything that paints their employer in a bad light would get the sack for gross misconduct. He is on the air on the BBC, therefore anything he says will reflect on the BBC.

That is hardly new.

Exactly, he had a popular Saturday show on BBC Radio 5 Live listened to by 500,000 people.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

For whatever reason he posted it, he should have known what the politically correct reaction would have been, i.e. that its racist.

If he doesn't have that level of awareness then he was a PR disaster waiting to happen.

Its obvious when its pointed out.

But its likely he didn't think at all about the grandparents ethnicity.

Megan doesn't look mixed race or black. Not to the extent it's obvious. To a lot of people they dont think oh wait they are mixed race is it okay for me to say this. They just say it because to them eace doesn't matter. That is the difference between a racist and an apologist and a normal person. To a normal person race doesn't matter.

Therefore it wasn't meant to be racist but a joke.

That's why he later deleted it when it was pointed out then apologised.

Seriously some people on here are getting up in arms about nothing.

It's a pity you didn't do the same when proper racism takes place on here.

Even the founder of these very forums never got called out on it. Yet Baker does for this innocent mistake.

 

[Em3bbs]

Guys, you got your pound of flesh and apology from him. Time to get back on Twitter and move on to your next victim.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Its obvious when its pointed out.

But its likely he didn't think at all about the grandparents ethnicity.

Megan doesn't look mixed race or black. Not to the extent it's obvious.

Therefore it wasn't meant to be racist but a joke.

That's why he later deleted it when it was pointed out then apologised.

Seriously some people on here are getting up in arms about nothing.

It's a pity you didn't do the same when proper racism takes place on here.

Even the founder of these very forums never got called out on it. Yet Baker does for this innocent mistake.

Next time some football fan throws a banana on the pitch you are going to argue "he meant to throw an apple, it just happens to be a banana"

Right?

 

[VincentHanna]

Guys, you got your pound of flesh and apology from him. Time to get back on Twitter and move on to your next victim.

He was sacked before this thread even appeared, hence the thread title.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Next time some football fan throws a banana on the pitch you are going to argue "he meant to throw an apple, it just happens to be a banana"

Right?

No because that is obvious.

You are being pedantic and obtuse for no other reason than you are a hipster

 

[One More Solo]

It was a monumentally stupid thing to do, and I think his apology is sincere but ultimately he's brought himself and his employer into disrepute so that will only end one way.

Also enjoying people in this thread defending him whilst referring to "coloured people".

 

[Em3bbs]

He was sacked before this thread even appeared, hence the thread title.

Hence I said "and apology".

 

[chroniclard]

It was a monumentally stupid thing to do, and I think his apology is sincere but ultimately he's brought himself and his employer into disrepute so that will only end one way.

Also enjoying people in this thread defending him whilst referring to "coloured people".

I was going to mention it but feared being called left wing for not being a bit racist.

 

[Junglist]

Not when there are other, perfectly legitimate and wholly innocent contexts in which the term can be and often are used. Otherwise we're off to ban Baa Baa BLACK Sheep, because racism.

Again, that is clearly nonsense and the people who got offended over that are clearly looking for something to be offended about. But that doesn't extend to every case. This is not one of those cases.

The line was only thin because people on social media are holding hair triggers, ready to pull on the slightest imaginable possibility of an excuse...

As well as the painfully obvious connotations that people wouldn't even have to look hard to see, yes.

I find it hard to believe anyone can be unintentionally racist. Either you do believe a particular race to be inferior, or you don't.

But people can be unintentionally racially insensitive. That is what happened here. I've no once tried to make out that he is a raving racist.

Yeh, I already did. That's what prompted the offering of the alternative in the first place.

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

Then you should be able to appreciate there are multiple sides to this. It's not fair he got fired for a mistake that seems genuine, looking at his apology. However it's also not fair that people with genuine concerns are getting shot down as just wanting attention or money.

If a black person looked every inch like the aforementioned white guy, just with darker skin, then it would be racist to not apply the term equally, no?

Of course, as you'd be treating them differently. That in definition is racism. However, this is the important bit, Just because you want to treat people the same doesn't mean you should be ignorant of history and how words were used in the past or in the case of monkeys/aps, still being used today.

I want to treat everyone the same. Being born in England I may refer to myself as English or a British. Now in my eyes there is nothing wrong with shortening British to Brit and perhaps I'd call someone from Scotland a Scot rather than Scottish. I'm sure most people would find no harm in anyone doing that.

Now, what would happen if I tried to do the same with Pakistan? Would me calling someone from Pakistan a short version of their country of origins name be acceptable to you? Despite me being able to call myself and anyone else born in GB a Brit.

My choice would be to not be racist (yes, i know Pakistan isn't a race but you'll get my point I'm making) and treat them how I treat everyone else OR I can be aware of the connotations of that word and how it has been used and treat them differently. It's not as clear cut as you're trying to make out.

Context and awareness of words are important. Remember, he isn't some clueless kid full of naivety.

Bit of both. It's greatly context-dependent and as much of a stretch as the connotations of white sheets for black people. There's blazing racism in that, but only if you look for it.

If you start cutting eye holes into them and setting a crucifix on fire on my front lawn, sure.

If you're in the middle of a food fight, then sure. Why not.
Context.

Yes. Context. So look at the entire spectrum of evidence available to you and then think "Could someone be rightly offended by this, even if I think it's perfectly innocent?"

There are also ties between some asian groups and apes/monkeys, both within those groups and from outsiders. It's not like this is limited to black people.

I've never said it's limited to white people. But please don't pretend that it doesn't happen to predominately black people. I don't know if you're deliberately trying to play devils advocate. In his apology even he acknowledges that the comparison of blacks and apes is the lowest hanging fruit for racism.

It's based on appearance. In the case of my 'pal', he looks like a ******* gorilla. If I do the same to a black man, it'll be because he looks like a fuking gorilla too.... NOTHING to do with his skin colour or with any suggestion that he is unevolved.
If I don't apply that perspective to everyone that looks like a ******* gorilla, that would be a racial inequality.

Yes it would be but you also have to be aware enough of the history. Lets use an exaggeration. Imagine if I was a teacher and had a class of students mixed up of different backgrounds. Kids already have a pretty naff attention span. What if I got fed up of them not paying attention and made a lighthearted "Well, that's it kids. I'm sending you all to a concentration camp to learn better attention...."

I may have meant it as a joke not thinking of the history but if a Jewish child went home and felt a bit offended by that, would they be overreacting?


Many have, though, and that's the problem of trial by social media.


But the idiots have a voice and people are seriously listening. Again, this is the problem.


...are not the ones causing problems like this.

They'd be even more surprised to learn that the first actual slaves were mostly black, and were 'owned' by other blacks.
If you mean indentured servants, they were people of all colours, including blacks. The nature of indentured servitude was quite different too, and with much greater legal empowerment, as the undertaking was for a fixed period and enabled the re-payment of passage to America in the first place.

They would be. History is a very interesting thing - but it's also something we can learn from. Like maybe not comparing people to apes as it has history behind it.

The Arab slavers were doing pretty well in the 1960s, and there's something like an estimated 12 million people curently in some form of slavery today.

Maybe so, doesn't change the fact the scale of the slave trade was massive, does it? Doesn't make it any less wrong either. Not really the point though.

He's also old enough to have experienced and to expect a modicum of sense from his audience, rather than just triggered woke backlashes...

“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.”
― Salman Rushdie

“Nobody has the right to not be offended. That right doesn't exist in any declaration I have ever read.
If you are offended it is your problem, and frankly lots of things offend lots of people”
― Salman Rushdie

“If I had a large amount of money I should certainly found a hospital for those whose grip upon the world is so tenuous that they can be severely offended by words and phrases and yet remain all unoffended by the injustice, violence and oppression that howls daily about our ears.”
― Stephen Fry

I mean, it's very easy to say people shouldn't be offended when it's something that was probably never aimed at the very people complaining against it.

OK, so something someone has said can be viewed in several ways, one of which might be considered offensive to some.... what's your point?

That people who don't see it as offensive doesn't trump the feelings of people who may be offended by it. You not seeing the point of the fuss doesn't mean there isn't a point to fuss over.

I have no issue with people being offended by it just as I have no issue with people being offended by it. What I do have an issue with is people saying that it's a massive overreaction whilst willingly ignoring the connotations of it all as if there are none and you need to make a really strained tenuous link.

 

[Raymond Lin]

No because that is obvious.

You are being pedantic and obtuse for no other reason than you are a hipster

Lol that’s your best rebuttal?

Your whole argument is based on that she looks white, which is already pointed out that it is highly improbable because of his job and because she has a massive wedding and her mum was there and it was in all the papers.

So your argument holds no water.

 

[Dis86]

Lol that’s your best rebuttal?

He's got you though. You hipster you!

 

[james.miller]

Not when there are other, perfectly legitimate and wholly innocent contexts in which the term can be and often are used. Otherwise we're off to ban Baa Baa BLACK Sheep, because racism.

Kids have been taught baa baa green sheep for years .... Yes, it's gone that far.

 

[wolfie138]

It was a monumentally stupid thing to do, and I think his apology is sincere but ultimately he's brought himself and his employer into disrepute so that will only end one way.

Also enjoying people in this thread defending him whilst referring to "coloured people".

explain to me again why "coloured" is offensive but "person of colour" isn't.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Lol that’s your best rebuttal?

Your whole argument is based on that she looks white, which is already pointed out that it is highly improbable because of his job and because she has a massive wedding and her mum was there and it was in all the papers.

So your argument holds no water.

So he has to recall all that information every time he has to speak about them?

Like I said what you are saying is no different to when Hindus draw swastikas. He didn't recall the fact she is mixed race or her mum is black. Does he have to remember that every time he talks about them or can he not just recall the fact they are human?

 

[Junglist]

explain to me again why "coloured" is offensive but "person of colour" isn't.

Would've thought they're both of the same. Why people are nervous to describe skin tones I've always found bizarre. I think people find it offensive as it suggests you're not of the norm. You're a coloured in version.
Wouldn't be awkward to say if someone has black, brown, blonde or ginger hair but ask someone to say a skin colour and it's like you're trying to trick them!

 

[inogen]

Only if I'm the only one. As is, many have a dim view of how society is going compared to where it's just been, and as such are voicing their concerns. Insisting that people who don't like how their world is going should just "come to terms" with it instead of seeking to better it is a pretty oppressive assertion.

Really? So you have a dim view of where society's going because it's no longer acceptable to make jokes with racist connotations? Surely that makes the world a better place?

I'm afraid, people have to come to terms with the idea that making "jokes" like this, with no regard for who might be offended by it, is now unacceptable and often consequential.

I'm sorry if you find that oppressive.

 

[Raymond Lin]

So he has to recall all that information every time he has to speak about them?

Like I said what you are saying is no different to when Hindus draw swastikas. He didn't recall the fact she is mixed race or her mum is black. Does he have to remember that every time he talks about them or can he not just recall the fact they are human?

So many straws.

 

[adam cool dude]

Kids have been thought baa baa green sheep for years .... Yes, it's gone that far.

Even saying the same thing can lead you into trouble. I am sure if you described the royal baby as half-caste instead of mixed race you would get lynched.

The guy was a naive fool if he didn't realize how it would be taken by millenials.

 

[danlightbulb]

But people can be unintentionally racially insensitive. That is what happened here. I've no once tried to make out that he is a raving racist.
.

Surely being racially insensitive is by very definition meaning he is not racist and actually a very good thing! It simply means the potential racist implications in his tweet didnt cross his mind because he doesnt see any difference. He doesnt think about race as a differentiating factor.

We should see more racially insensitive stuff because that is equality.

Ive said this before about racism on here but the ones who see the racism are the ones who are truly racist. They are the ones who think enough about differentiation based on race to notice and interpret negatively.