Death row final statements

lowrider007 said:
Actually, how many murderers that are released after serving a life sentence in the UK go on to commit murder again?

Is there any figures for this?
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I don't have the numbers, but I suspect not very many. In serious cases a 'life' sentance can be extended indefinitely for people believed to be at risk of reoffending.
 
Spenty said:
It's amazing how many threads on here turn into petty little arguments.
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The answer to capital punishment in the society we have now is simple. There's no way to justify it because innocent people do die, it doesn't act as a deterrent and it's more expensive than just keeping people in prison.

It doesn't help in any way.

I could see an argument for the future when hypothetically those things don't exist.

The petty arguments come about because people who think with their gut assume it's cheaper, assume it's a deterrent and can't get away from giving victims satisfaction - because I suspect they get some kind of sexual gratification from it. They're also the ones keen to avoid facts and keen to shout anyone down with "Oh but what about the victim, what do they deserve and what did murderer show any compassion to them". Frankly those kinds of people are a bunch of reactionary morons and there's no reasoning with them.

There are however people who are just mistaken and when they realise that capital punishment offers nothing they'll change their views - I used to think it might be a good idea. Now that I'm aware of the realities of it I don't.
 
Castiel said:
Death is not a punishment however, it is a release from responsibilty. Unless you are religious of course.
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We'll have to agree to disagree.

I wasn't being flippant, it was your terminology I used not mine....and you haven't addressed that killing is not necessarily murder, so the term State Sponsored Murder is simply incorrect.
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Because I don't want to go off on a tangent. The original comment was about war. Obviously as a civilian there are circumstances in which the killing of another may not be necessarily unlawful (self defence being one example), but that's not what I was talking about.

No I haven't, what you are saying is that self defence or defence of the state or it's people is effectively murder, which it isn't as murder has a specific legal definition.
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Murder does have a very specific definition, but in essence it relates to intent. If a person kills anyone with the intent to kill them then it's murder. Obviously we recognise there may be some exemptions from criminal liability, but if the points to prove can be fulfilled then the offence is complete.

Actually it is, and when it is abused it initiated War Crimes. Simply because one state invades another state doesn't mean it is not in defence of that state or it's people.
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That doesn't change anything I've said.

It is too open to abuse and Irreversable miscarriages of justice, the death penalty is unnecessary when there are other viable options available that mitigate the risks whilst protecting the public and punishing the offender.
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I don't accept there is any way to mitigate the risks from released offenders convicted of murder. In 2005, the reoffending rate for released murderers in the UK was 1.2%. A small percentage yes, but that figure represents the needless loss of life that would not have occurred had the offender been killed.


And what predicated the abolition of the death penalty?
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I have no idea. I know it was abolished because of a motion raised in the House of Commons. There has been consistent calls for it's reintroduction. Interestingly:

In August 2011, a representative survey conducted by Angus Reid Public Opinion showed that 65% of Britons support reinstating the death penalty for murder in Great Britain, while 28% oppose this course of action. Men and respondents aged over 35 are more likely to endorse the change

Forum opinion may be against me, but it would appear that Public opinion is not.

I don't disagree, but that doesn't justify the return of capital punishment.
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Again, let's agree to disagree.
 
Selective stats.
Why not look at the stats for death penalty for all convicted murders. That's what you want and your in a massive minority. Just 16% support that.
The 60% tat is for death penalty for only murders involving children.
 
Glaucus said:
Selective stats.
Why not look at the stats for death penalty for all convicted murders. That's what you want and your in a massive minority. Just 16% support that.
The 60% tat is for death penalty for only murders involving children.
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That isn't what this appears to state: http://www.angus-reid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011.08.23_Death_BRI.pdf

Also:

65% support reinstating the death
penalty for murder in Great Britain; 28%
are opposed
52% would prefer the death penalty as a
punishment for convicted murderers;
35% select life imprisonment
75% agree with MPs debating whether
the death penalty should be reinstated
 
Why don't you look at the biggest opionion poll. Ukgov 2010 opinion poll. 62% for child, 16% for all murder.

You need to looks t what questions where asked an how it's broken down.
You'll find the high percentage is for very general questions. Where you opinion not generall, it's a very hard opinion that isn't widely supported. You find the majority of the high percents are word like "in some cases" and when question that innocent people may die or what offenses it applies to the numbers quickly drop off.
 
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George Hincapie said:
Well that's not good enough. If you don't have the facts then don't post until you do. If a single person is killed by a reoffender then it's one person too many.
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And what about in America where the statistics show that in the states that have capital punishment murder rate is higher than those that don't?

Your not taking into consideration the impact of a particular engineered civilised society can have on people, you can actually save more lives by being more civilised and humane, this has been proven in the states, the attitude of the state is very important and has an effect on the people.
 
lowrider007 said:
Your not taking into consideration the impact of a particular engineered civilised society can have on people, you can actually save more lives by being more civilised and humane, this has been proven in the states, the attitude of the state is very important and has an effect on the people.
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even better example is Norway.
 
George Hincapie said:
That isn't what this appears to state: http://www.angus-reid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011.08.23_Death_BRI.pdf

Also:

65% support reinstating the death
penalty for murder in Great Britain; 28%
are opposed
52% would prefer the death penalty as a
punishment for convicted murderers;
35% select life imprisonment
75% agree with MPs debating whether
the death penalty should be reinstated
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Oh dear......


" From August 11 to August 12, 2011, Angus Reid Public Opinion conducted an online survey among 2,039 randomly selected British adults who are Springboard UK panelists. The margin of error—which measures sampling variability—is +/- 2.2%. The results have been statistically weighted according to the most current education, age, gender and region data to ensure samples representative of the entire adult population of Great Britain. Discrepancies in or between totals are due to rounding."
 
Do those polls just ask the questions to the selected people or do they actually educate people on the subject before asking the questions? I think uneducated polls may show a trend towards pro-death penalty but that could be because they don't realise it is shown not to be a deterrent and that perhaps they think killing a person is cheaper than life in prison when in fact it's more expensive.
 
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